R92 Forearm vs. Band Fit
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R92 Forearm vs. Band Fit
I had posted this as part of a topic on my Rossi R92 chambered in 357 Mag...
The only issue I ended up having with my 357 Mag was that damned forearm band fit. I would love to watch them force that screw through the forearm! I picture the forearm in a vice, a padded pipe wrench across the receiver with a three foot cheater, and a lot of muscle torquing the hell out everything just to get a screw to engage two lands. Incredible!
This forearm, like my last one, was shattered between the barrel and the magazine tube from the pressure that had been applied to it. I didn't want to work with it as I wanted to shoot the rifle but it was impossible for me not to deal with it. Here is what the band screw looked like.
As the forearm and magazine were torqued to get the screw past the barrel, contact with the barrel stripped the threads. There is no way the screw can pass through the forearm, without some incredible torque and pressure being applied to these components. None!
I did what I've had to do with all my 92s, except the 480 Ruger, relieve the barrel properly. I fit it in these steps.
1st - Band vs. screw Fit - I have found the band deformed from the Rossi installation! This one was squashed. I had to reshape it to fit the barrel and forearm radius. This step took the longest, about an hour, because I needed to keep going from my vice to the barrel and vice to forearm to make until the shape matched perfectly.
2nd - Band vs. Barrel Fit - It took a bit of filing with a series of round files but not to the extent that my 45 Colt required. I finish the work with wet & dry 600 grit on a wooden dowel. Those scratches on the barrel are from Rossi, not me!
3rd - Band vs.Forearm vs. Screw Fit - I have relieved the screw hole on all four of my 92s from 9/64" to 11/64" and then finish the work smooth with appropriate files and sand paper.
I had not relieved the forearm of it's middle material at this point but soon found that I still could not seat the band screw. Everything was lined up. I could see the screw at the hole but the stock needed to be compressed to seat it. Not good in my opinion as that is just going to apply an unknown pressure to the barrel. I removed the material from the middle of the stock with an exacto knife. This is where you learn that Brazilian hardwood is not the hardwood we know. Cuts like balsa!
With the stock relieved, the screw was seated without any pressure. Just threaded it in. The amount of pressure on the forearms of my 92s has been ridiculous, the rifles would have never lived up to their accuracy potential. If you wonder about that, remove the forearm and tube, then shoot your rifle. That is how most of my pressure trace shooting is done and it is amazing how the forearm and tube with goofy torque/pressure effects the rifle.
With the buggered screw, I was happy that I have been ordering Rossi parts. Look at the new Braztech Barrel Band Screw...
Notice the new "tip"? With everything aligned it sure seats easier and quicker. It is tougher to get in if the Rossi "Torque" technique is used to seat the screw as there are fewer threads to crush as the screw worms itself past the barrel.
[hr][/hr]
You might also try 357cyrus' Quick Fix offered later in this topic to see if it works on your rifle.
The only issue I ended up having with my 357 Mag was that damned forearm band fit. I would love to watch them force that screw through the forearm! I picture the forearm in a vice, a padded pipe wrench across the receiver with a three foot cheater, and a lot of muscle torquing the hell out everything just to get a screw to engage two lands. Incredible!
This forearm, like my last one, was shattered between the barrel and the magazine tube from the pressure that had been applied to it. I didn't want to work with it as I wanted to shoot the rifle but it was impossible for me not to deal with it. Here is what the band screw looked like.
As the forearm and magazine were torqued to get the screw past the barrel, contact with the barrel stripped the threads. There is no way the screw can pass through the forearm, without some incredible torque and pressure being applied to these components. None!
I did what I've had to do with all my 92s, except the 480 Ruger, relieve the barrel properly. I fit it in these steps.
1st - Band vs. screw Fit - I have found the band deformed from the Rossi installation! This one was squashed. I had to reshape it to fit the barrel and forearm radius. This step took the longest, about an hour, because I needed to keep going from my vice to the barrel and vice to forearm to make until the shape matched perfectly.
2nd - Band vs. Barrel Fit - It took a bit of filing with a series of round files but not to the extent that my 45 Colt required. I finish the work with wet & dry 600 grit on a wooden dowel. Those scratches on the barrel are from Rossi, not me!
3rd - Band vs.Forearm vs. Screw Fit - I have relieved the screw hole on all four of my 92s from 9/64" to 11/64" and then finish the work smooth with appropriate files and sand paper.
I had not relieved the forearm of it's middle material at this point but soon found that I still could not seat the band screw. Everything was lined up. I could see the screw at the hole but the stock needed to be compressed to seat it. Not good in my opinion as that is just going to apply an unknown pressure to the barrel. I removed the material from the middle of the stock with an exacto knife. This is where you learn that Brazilian hardwood is not the hardwood we know. Cuts like balsa!
With the stock relieved, the screw was seated without any pressure. Just threaded it in. The amount of pressure on the forearms of my 92s has been ridiculous, the rifles would have never lived up to their accuracy potential. If you wonder about that, remove the forearm and tube, then shoot your rifle. That is how most of my pressure trace shooting is done and it is amazing how the forearm and tube with goofy torque/pressure effects the rifle.
With the buggered screw, I was happy that I have been ordering Rossi parts. Look at the new Braztech Barrel Band Screw...
Notice the new "tip"? With everything aligned it sure seats easier and quicker. It is tougher to get in if the Rossi "Torque" technique is used to seat the screw as there are fewer threads to crush as the screw worms itself past the barrel.
[hr][/hr]
You might also try 357cyrus' Quick Fix offered later in this topic to see if it works on your rifle.
Last edited by Ranch Dog on 09 Jul 2013 07:35, edited 1 time in total.
Reason: Link added to 357cyrus' post!
Reason: Link added to 357cyrus' post!
Michael
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Re: R92 Forearm vs. Band Fit
Crazy glue scope base installations, A&W (armstrong & wrench) forearm and band fitting.
Some would call Rossi a "slam bang operation"...........yah think?
I wonder what the forearm/band configuration on the real Winny 92s or the new Miroku Winnys are.
I would expect to see a lot more fitting and finishing and a stress relieved forearm formulation in the super expensive 92s.
I don't think too many would be too willing to strip an original Winny 92 to find out.
I've stripped apart my Browning BLR '81 (Miroku built) which has a barrel band and there was no stress whatsover.
The 92s were admittedly tricky but being an ex weight lifter/football player I have forearms and hands like an Orangutan and had no trouble "convincing" the forearm parts that they should fit back together.
The accuracy on my 92s is just fine for hunting and they were never designed to be micro-grouping bench rest rifles.
I invoke the lazy man's alibi and leave well enough alone.
If I do decide to take stress relieving my 92s as a winter project I'll include glass bedding which kinda locks things in place and virtually eliminates the effect of moisture related wood swell on accuracy.
Some would call Rossi a "slam bang operation"...........yah think?
I wonder what the forearm/band configuration on the real Winny 92s or the new Miroku Winnys are.
I would expect to see a lot more fitting and finishing and a stress relieved forearm formulation in the super expensive 92s.
I don't think too many would be too willing to strip an original Winny 92 to find out.
I've stripped apart my Browning BLR '81 (Miroku built) which has a barrel band and there was no stress whatsover.
The 92s were admittedly tricky but being an ex weight lifter/football player I have forearms and hands like an Orangutan and had no trouble "convincing" the forearm parts that they should fit back together.
The accuracy on my 92s is just fine for hunting and they were never designed to be micro-grouping bench rest rifles.
I invoke the lazy man's alibi and leave well enough alone.
If I do decide to take stress relieving my 92s as a winter project I'll include glass bedding which kinda locks things in place and virtually eliminates the effect of moisture related wood swell on accuracy.
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Re: R92 Forearm vs. Band Fit
At some point this will have to be done on my own personal 92 I was able to just use wet dry sandpaper to releive it so that I had proper band and screw alignment on my dads and my uncles. now at some point I need to do mine.
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Re: R92 Forearm vs. Band Fit
The proof is in the puddin.
After all the filing, fitting and finishing are the guns more accurate?
That pithy wood the 92 forearm is made of looks like it would really swell if wet.
Was any kind of sealant applied to the forearm channel on the inside before the gun was reassembled?
After all the filing, fitting and finishing are the guns more accurate?
That pithy wood the 92 forearm is made of looks like it would really swell if wet.
Was any kind of sealant applied to the forearm channel on the inside before the gun was reassembled?
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Re: R92 Forearm vs. Band Fit
That is why I sealed mine I soaked mine so it is sealed to help with that beens I had so much rust on the barrel and mag tube where the forearm was touching.
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Re: R92 Forearm vs. Band Fit
When (primarily to strengthen and moisture seal the forearm) I stress relieve my 92s this winter I'm going to route some wood out of the channel and glass bed the magazine tube in the forearm channel.akuser47 wrote:That is why I sealed mine I soaked mine so it is sealed to help with that beens I had so much rust on the barrel and mag tube where the forearm was touching.
That way the gun will fit back together the same way (like snapping Mattel pieces together) each & every time I strip it apart with no new unknown stresses to deal with after each reassembly.
And glass bedding is the best moisture/oil sealant of all and it also considerably strengthens the pithy balsa like wood in most Rossi stocks.
It'd be nice to read some range reports of the accuracy improvements resulting from stress relieving the 92 forearms.
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Re: R92 Forearm vs. Band Fit
Good thinkin I like that I may have to order some more acra glass. I used the last of mine on a 700 I got shooting good so I need to redorder more nice way to think on this put release agent on the mag tube use a nylon type screen and route out the inner channel and the lay the screen in and with a good release agent on the mag tube and barrel and on my barrel strap it all together till it cures I would put it on thick to reinforce the forearm. You got me thinkin I wonder what I can do Love it.pricedo wrote:When (primarily to strengthen and moisture seal the forearm) I stress relieve my 92s this winter I'm going to route some wood out of the channel and glass bed the magazine tube in the forearm channel.akuser47 wrote:That is why I sealed mine I soaked mine so it is sealed to help with that beens I had so much rust on the barrel and mag tube where the forearm was touching.
That way the gun will fit back together the same way (like snapping Mattel pieces together) each & every time I strip it apart with no new unknown stresses to deal with after each reassembly.
And glass bedding is the best moisture/oil sealant of all and it also considerably strengthens the pithy balsa like wood in most Rossi stocks.
It'd be nice to read some range reports of the accuracy improvements resulting from stress relieving the 92 forearms.
Re: R92 Forearm vs. Band Fit
I am still waiting on the arrival of my 92 but find a good furniture wax seals most wood up for quite a few years.
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Re: R92 Forearm vs. Band Fit
Akuser47:
Eureka!
Just a little out of the box thinking guys.
I'm an engineer .........that's what I do for a living.
A cheap bedding kit from Brownells will solve all these stress problems and stabilize, seal & strengthen the jungle mystery wood in the forearm at the same time.
When you strip it for routine cleaning at the end of the hunting season the stock will snap together like Mattel blocks.
The solution is as simple as falling at a log but I dangled the bait for several post before someone decided to snatch simplicity from the jaws of chaos.
Eureka!
Just a little out of the box thinking guys.
I'm an engineer .........that's what I do for a living.
A cheap bedding kit from Brownells will solve all these stress problems and stabilize, seal & strengthen the jungle mystery wood in the forearm at the same time.
When you strip it for routine cleaning at the end of the hunting season the stock will snap together like Mattel blocks.
The solution is as simple as falling at a log but I dangled the bait for several post before someone decided to snatch simplicity from the jaws of chaos.
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Re: R92 Forearm vs. Band Fit
i'd also like to hear a range report, but it had to help things. some of that mystery wood can be tricky to work with.