Deer with .357 what to do?

[Moon Tree]

I had to opportunity to deer hunt out of state this past weekend. I took my Rossi 92, .357 mag, because I wanted another "field/hunting" test with the rifle and the bullets, since the buck I shot with it was spined with the first shot. My biggest concern was/is, will there be enough of a blood trail for me to track the mortally wounded deer.

I was hunting in ground blind on the edge of the wood line watching a heavily use trail. I was told, deer would come through the woods in to an open field that was 100 yards wide down into a cedar thicket, cross a fence to pasture, where they would hug a wooded fence line to their bedding area. I should have less than a 50 yard shot at the deer.

Fifteen minutes after shooting light I see a doe's nose stick from the tree line. She was a nice doe 110 to 120 field dressed, I guessed. She was follow by 2 smaller does (80-90 field dressed) and another doe her equall. They were curious about the blind. It had been there for about a year, but the windows being open got her attention. They came straight toward me, noses and tails twitching. At 30 yards she turned nearly broadside, but slightly quartering toward me.

The Rossi was already out he window. (For those who have followed my journey to make this iron sighted rifle a deer gun for me, I was wearing my shooting glasses with the Merit Aperture, this time.) I aimed at the seam of her shoulder and half way up her body. Boom! She twirled/staggered and did a "low run" with her belly almost dragging the ground. She disappeared into the cedar thicket on the other side of the field.

The other 3 deer just stood there looking around. After semi-circling the blind they finally left in a slow trot.

I waited 15 minutes then slipped out of the ground blind and headed back to the cabin for coffee and to wait an hour.

Over an hour later I was back in the blind to re-orient myself to the shot. I went to were the doe was standing. NO BLOOD I could see in the ground her tracks where she twirled and ran. I started tracking this running deer tracks. The 3 loping deer joined her tracks. But it was fairly easy to distinguish the difference. When they got to the cedar thicket it became harder to tell the tracks apart. Apparently, she had slowed down then. Still there was no blood trail to follow.

Halfway down the hill through the cedars I could see my doe laying in the other field. I continued to track her. No blood. Even when she jumped the fence there was not blood on the other side. There's almost always blood on the other side when they jump a fence or a ditch. The only blood I found was 20 feet up hill of where I found her, and that probably because shot rolled downhill when she dropped.

I am shooting 168 gr Keith style SWC with a .260 meplat that is traveling 1767 fps. It shot through the deer leaving a large cigar size hole through both lungs. She ran about 150 yard with zero blood trail. There was quite a bit of blood in the diaphragm and a lot of blood between the skin and ribs, but none on the ground.

Had I shot this deer on wooded ridge with limited visibility and a hundred different directions she could have traveled, I'm not sure I would have found her.

What do I need to do so I won't lose a deer next season, ie create a blood trail for tracking. OR, be able to drop a deer in it's tracks? I'm getting to reusable ballistic gel after the holidays to test all my hunting rounds.

The exit wound has the white circle. The other blotch is glare.

The picture with the Rossi shows the entrance wound.

[Ranch Dog]

Two quick observations: With the large holes through both lungs, the critter just isn't breathing. If it isn't breathing it isn't blowing blood out the the snout and mouth. The heart is pumping, filling up the chest cavity. If the entry and exit wounds where a inch or so lower, the blood would have spilled out on the ground.

This is the tough part of shooting a critter and I'm experiencing what you went through right now but I haven't found the deer. I made a hit on a large buck yesterday evening, the buck was chasing a doe. I hit it even higher than you did and have lost it in dense brush. I did everything I could and thought the shot was good at the pull of the trigger but…

I found one area of blood that spilled out about 100 yards from the shot and then nothing. We have a real problem here with the coyotes and as I called off the search late last night I knew that I probably would never see the deer. The coyotes clean stuff up so quick at night that we never see buzzards to help us later locate the animal.

[Moon Tree]

I feel for you RD. I just hate losing an animal that I've hit. I just feel that I owe it the animal. I'll spend an hour or more looking for a squirrel that I shot out of tree. But, as hunter we know that even with the best of shots, bullets and calibers, sometimes the animal just can't be found. I've lost 5 hit deer in my 40 years of hunting. I remember each of those in detail.

[boolitcastermaster]

That's definitely a bummer.
I've lost them too and it perturbs me to no end when that happens.
I hunt the real thick stuff with my Guide Gun pushing a 430 grain hard cast flat nose lead pill around 1875 fps out the spout. Major shocking power and breaks and penetrates bone rather than glancing off.
Like dangerous game hunting the priority in thick brush deer hunting is STOPPING above killing.
A lung or even heart shot deer can go quite a ways on adrenalin and disappear forever under a log never to be seen again.
With a shoulder shot and the shoulder bones broken the deer isn't going anywhere.
If the deer is close enough and the shot path unobstructed and animals profile presentation is good I will do a head shot. Not usually one to blow my own horn but I'm a pretty good shot with my Guide Gun and the gun is packing pretty good glass (high end Leupold 2-7x33mm, the scope is worth more than the gun).
That's a lot of ifs to get right for a head shot so it's usually a shoulder shot. If I'm not reasonably sure of my shot placement I don't take the shot and wait for a better opportunity.
Might lose 10 pounds of meat with the shoulder shot but it's better than losing the whole deer.
Where it is legal we always have a dog or two along on a thick brush deer hunt or on any hunt for that matter.
Our Walker hounds can find a wounded gone to ground deer in minutes.
When we hear the hounds baying chorus I know the game is up for that deer.

[Ranch Dog]

I feel for you RD. I just hate losing an animal that I've hit. I just feel that I owe it the animal. I'll spend an hour or more looking for a squirrel that I shot out of tree. But, as hunter we know that even with the best of shots, bullets and calibers, sometimes the animal just can't be found. I've lost 5 hit deer in my 40 years of hunting. I remember each of those in detail.

I appreciate it. I didn't say it but I shot the deer with my Rio Grande that is chambered in 38-55 Win. The bullet is cast of my design, a 250-grain flat point at 2000 FPS.



We looked for it with horses and a healer dog this afternoon to no avail. Our grass savannahs are waist high so that makes the looking tough and it is interspersed with thorn mots with no visibility, not a single foot can you see. The pasture that I suspect the deer is in is scheduled for a prescribed burn in a couple of months. If nothing else I might be able to find him then.

The last deer I lost was in 1991 and I usually kill from three to six a year.

[boolitcastermaster]

The bluing and wood to metal fitting looks pretty good on that RG.
The wood isn't fancy but is attractive like the wood on my 1950s vintage Win 94.
250 grain at 2000 fps = 2220 ft-lbs ME - a pretty good thump for a whitetail - should be good out to about 150 yds.
A legacy caliber but not far off the 375 Winchester ballistics.
Heavy for caliber hard cast lead bullets kill very efficiently.

[Ranch Dog]

Exactly 48 hours later and absolutely no sign of the deer. I've got enough country, 1½ mile by ½ mile and was about the center of the place where I shot him. Really doubt he would have made it off the place but who knows. The country is flat enough that I can see the horizon for miles and there have been no buzzards working anywhere in sight. Kind of has all of us; hunters, cowboys, dog, and self scratching our head. The coyotes are really thick this year and I think he is gone; hide, hair, and bones with nothing left for the buzzards. The country he was in is scheduled for a prescribed burn in a couple of months so I might recover the antlers after that event with a little looking.

The bluing and wood to metal fitting looks pretty good on that RG.
The wood isn't fancy but is attractive like the wood on my 1950s vintage Win 94.
250 grain at 2000 fps = 2220 ft-lbs ME - a pretty good thump for a whitetail - should be good out to about 150 yds.
A legacy caliber but not far off the 375 Winchester ballistics.
Heavy for caliber hard cast lead bullets kill very efficiently.

All three of my Rio Grandes, my R92s as well, have deep bluing with a good metal to wood fit. The picture is before the Tru-Oil was applied and the rifle has an outstanding look now. The RG is a bit of a cross between the Marlin and Winchester to me. No doubt a 336 action but the rifle is very slim like a M94. This is why I really like the RG4570 as it is the same slim profile as that of the RG3030. JES did the rebore & rechamber of a RG3030 to 38-55 Win.

[Moon Tree]

I see 2 maybe 3 options to me make this .357 the deer gun I want; change bullet style, change point of aim, possibly increase velocity. The bullet I'm using, according to my local reloading supply store owner, is based off the Ideal mould developed by Keith. He had NOE custom make a batch of these moulds. A local guy cast these bullet for him. The meplat, to the best of my calibrations of trying to hold meter right on the edge of the meplat, is at .259 to .260. That makes it just slightly larger than RD's RFN design. RD's bullet still intrigues, because it's heavier and the CNC 158 gr. RFN I have tried shoot sowell in my Rossi. I'll probably be giving RD bullet a try this spring. I prefer to hunt with hard cast bullets, but if I need to go with jacketed bullets, I will. I have 10 months to play around with some ballistic gel.

On shot placement, I'm with you boolitcastermaster, I don't mind giving up a few pounds of meat to get the rest of the deer. My concern with a shoulder shot with the .357 is the bullet will just poke the .8" hole through the shoulder without debilitation the deer like your larger caliber bullet does??? A head shot (brain/spinal shot) is a small target for iron sight at my age. A neck shot give a little margin for error, but not much. RD, I believe you might be right. If I had aim a 1/3 of the way up the deer instead of 1/2 way up, I might would have had a blood trail. The pig I shot a couple weeks ago with the Blackhawk using the same bullet, left a blood train a 5 year old could have followed. I shot it 1/3 way up.

More velocity/power thoughts. My first blush is I'm already shooting through the deer. is increasing power going to create more "knock down" energy at this point or will it be wasted energy after it passes through the animal?

I'm here to learn from you guys. If I question something you tell me, it's not that I'm being a "know-it-all." It because I really want your advice.

[Ranch Dog]

More velocity/power thoughts. My first blush is I'm already shooting through the deer. is increasing power going to create more "knock down" energy at this point or will it be wasted energy after it passes through the animal?

I think you are pushing the bullet about as fast as you can push in within the confines of the cartridge. You might get 35 FPS more as you push the pressure maximum, but that really doesn't amount to much of anything on the terminal end.

I'm here to learn from you guys. If I question something you tell me, it's not that I'm being a "know-it-all." It because I really want your advice.

I sure don't want to sound like a know it all because the shot in every hunting situation is dynamic and unique but I'm 100% behind a shot in the at a point that represents the lower third of the body horizontally, immediately behind the shoulder.

I usually see about 75 to 100 critters, hogs and deer, killed on my ranch each year. My largest "loss" shot is head and neck shots on hogs. it is a very poor shot, my hunters don't take them. They don't like shoulder shots either for the very reason you mentioned. We have had the deer hobble into the brush and once there, not be found. If there isn't any blood, we cannot find them. The rule of thumb here is that if a critter isn't recovered in 4 hours, it is lost to the coyotes. We have had coyotes on a deer within 45 minutes and no food value left.

I would go with the shooting more. I said this in a passing comment to my wife about myself yesterday, and she replied "its too bad a rifle range is so far away." It's 100 yards behind our house.

[Moon Tree]

I would go with the shooting more. I said this in a passing comment to my wife about myself yesterday, and she replied "its too bad a rifle range is so far away." It's 100 yards behind our house.

I have the same problem, RD. My 50 yard range is 30 yards from my back door. Shooting more is one of my New Year's resolutions, even though I shot more last year than I have in many years ( about 2500 rounds with various firearm, 1500 of so with the Rossi).