Anyone Seen This Before?
Anyone Seen This Before?
Okay, so I finally went and picked up my RG4570B; and I took the 92 checklist with me as well as some A-Zoom snap caps to check loading gate, cycling, and ejection.
Fit was good, no noticeable gaps between wood and metal, and the wood actually looked much better than I've seen on most Rossi lever guns. No canted sights, gate was stiff but loaded fine (I imagine it'll loosen up some with use). Cycled and ejected just fine, and the action was already very smooth. No barrel or magazine issues, and recoil pad and screws for it were all fine.
That's the good news, and having checked all the things I thought might be an issue, I went through with the transfer. Then I got home and was cycling it some more and familiarizing myself with it when I noticed that the hammer didn't seem centered in the bolt and appeared to be rubbing on the right hand side in the cutout for the firing pin, as the bluing was wearing off only on that side. And on the top of the hammer, it was only wearing on the left side as the bolt pushed the hammer back, rather than rubbing right down the center, it was only touching to the left of center.
When I looked more closely I noticed 2 things. First, the bolt itself isn't in the receiver straight; it's turned a little counter-clockwise, causing the hammer to impact the ride edge of the bolt when coming down. And second, the bolt itself isn't cut out evenly where the firing pin is housed; there is more metal on the right hand side and less space between the firing pin and side wall of the cutout, further causing the hammer to rub and impact/rub the right side of the bolt when coming down.
When I noticed some metal filing dust from the rubbing I just let it be to see if anyone had experienced this and if there was a way to turn the bolt clockwise a little, and if either the hammer and/or bolt could be adjusted some so it clears that edge... I'm concerned that it might actually slow the hammer down enough to prevent a hard enough primer strike to fire the round.
Camera pics are lousy, but should be good enough to show what's going on...
In these pictures you can see how the hammer is about to hit the right side, how there is more metal on the right than the left, and how the bolt is turned to the left.
In these pictures you'll see how much space there is on each side of the hammer when down. Notice in the first picture you can tell even more clearly that the bolt isn't straight because there's a wide gap at the top and a narrower gap at the bottom. And then on the ride side of the hammer there no room between the hammer and bolt side at all.
And in this picture, if you look closely you can the the difference in the amount of space between the firing pin and bolt walls on both sides. On the left side there's a noticeable gap between the pin and wall, and on the right side it appears the pin is nearly touching the wall.
Please tell me this can be addressed without sending the gun back, because I really like all other aspects of the gun and don't want to wait a month or so to get a brand new gun fixed, or worse yet possibly get a replacement that turns out to be worse in some of those other areas.
Fit was good, no noticeable gaps between wood and metal, and the wood actually looked much better than I've seen on most Rossi lever guns. No canted sights, gate was stiff but loaded fine (I imagine it'll loosen up some with use). Cycled and ejected just fine, and the action was already very smooth. No barrel or magazine issues, and recoil pad and screws for it were all fine.
That's the good news, and having checked all the things I thought might be an issue, I went through with the transfer. Then I got home and was cycling it some more and familiarizing myself with it when I noticed that the hammer didn't seem centered in the bolt and appeared to be rubbing on the right hand side in the cutout for the firing pin, as the bluing was wearing off only on that side. And on the top of the hammer, it was only wearing on the left side as the bolt pushed the hammer back, rather than rubbing right down the center, it was only touching to the left of center.
When I looked more closely I noticed 2 things. First, the bolt itself isn't in the receiver straight; it's turned a little counter-clockwise, causing the hammer to impact the ride edge of the bolt when coming down. And second, the bolt itself isn't cut out evenly where the firing pin is housed; there is more metal on the right hand side and less space between the firing pin and side wall of the cutout, further causing the hammer to rub and impact/rub the right side of the bolt when coming down.
When I noticed some metal filing dust from the rubbing I just let it be to see if anyone had experienced this and if there was a way to turn the bolt clockwise a little, and if either the hammer and/or bolt could be adjusted some so it clears that edge... I'm concerned that it might actually slow the hammer down enough to prevent a hard enough primer strike to fire the round.
Camera pics are lousy, but should be good enough to show what's going on...
In these pictures you can see how the hammer is about to hit the right side, how there is more metal on the right than the left, and how the bolt is turned to the left.
In these pictures you'll see how much space there is on each side of the hammer when down. Notice in the first picture you can tell even more clearly that the bolt isn't straight because there's a wide gap at the top and a narrower gap at the bottom. And then on the ride side of the hammer there no room between the hammer and bolt side at all.
And in this picture, if you look closely you can the the difference in the amount of space between the firing pin and bolt walls on both sides. On the left side there's a noticeable gap between the pin and wall, and on the right side it appears the pin is nearly touching the wall.
Please tell me this can be addressed without sending the gun back, because I really like all other aspects of the gun and don't want to wait a month or so to get a brand new gun fixed, or worse yet possibly get a replacement that turns out to be worse in some of those other areas.
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Re: Anyone Seen This Before?
Well, I understand your concerns. To the best of my recollection we haven't seen something like this reported, possibly the hammer canted but for sure not the bolt. So, I suspect you will be riding lead on this.G8R8U2 wrote:Please tell me this can be addressed without sending the gun back, because I really like all other aspects of the gun and don't want to wait a month or so to get a brand new gun fixed, or worse yet possibly get a replacement that turns out to be worse in some of those other areas.
The best thing is that the RG is super easy to open up. I would take it all apart and see why both the bolt and hammer are canted.
Michael
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Re: Anyone Seen This Before?
Yep.......there's definitely smething askew there.
It's quite apparent in that bottom pic.
BrazTech must have laid off the guy who calibrated the CNC machines.
As long as the muzzle hole and butt plate were on opposite ends of the gun and the muzzle wasn't pointed back at the shooters head with the gun shouldered it would meet their "standards" .
But you never know the gun might still function OK.
Another item to add to the ever-growing pre-purchase check list.
It's quite apparent in that bottom pic.
BrazTech must have laid off the guy who calibrated the CNC machines.
As long as the muzzle hole and butt plate were on opposite ends of the gun and the muzzle wasn't pointed back at the shooters head with the gun shouldered it would meet their "standards" .
But you never know the gun might still function OK.
Another item to add to the ever-growing pre-purchase check list.
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Re: Anyone Seen This Before?
No we have not see anything even close to that.... Does it fire ok and can you live with it? I agree with RD, tear I apart and see why and for Pricedo I was able to located the guy who used to work as the quality control guy for all Rossi lever guns. He is now working for Remington......
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Re: Anyone Seen This Before?
Yeah, I took the bolt out and looked at it and inside as well, but couldn't see anything I thought might cause it.Tuco Ramirez wrote:No we have not see anything even close to that.... Does it fire ok and can you live with it? I agree with RD, tear I apart and see why and for Pricedo I was able to located the guy who used to work as the quality control guy for all Rossi lever guns. He is now working for Remington......
I think the bolt was just cut terribly; the obvious uneven cut where the firing pin is, and I think an additional poor cut was made on the side where the grooves are for it to slide back and forth on... I think those grooves are not quite in the right place.
Also, I hadn't noticed before but it looks like the hammer is canted to the right as well, further complicating matters and ensuring the hammer will impact that bolt wall on its way down.
In any event, once put back together it still had the same problems, and there's really no way to make any adjustments because the bolt grooves are permanent and what it rides on inside the receiver are pretty much fixed as well; so the bolt is going to sit how it sits.
I guess I could have filed down some of the right bolt wall to make room for the hammer to fall freely; but I'm not crazy about the idea and it could void the warranty... not to mention that still wouldn't fix the other problems.
I talked to Rossi and they want to see the rifle; they already sent me a tag. Thanks for everyone's input and replies; had no idea I was going to stump you.
Last edited by G8R8U2 on 12 Feb 2014 18:19, edited 1 time in total.
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Re: Anyone Seen This Before?
Thanks for posting this!!! I am not a send it back to the factory kind of guy but even I would send this one back in. Please keep us posted on the outcome I have to think at a minimum you will be getting a new bolt assembly and hammer. Maybe even a new rifle!!
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Re: Anyone Seen This Before?
I can fix Rossi "oversights" in fit & finish but it's pretty hard to make adjustments in solid steel for sure.
Rossi certainly keeps us rolling with the punches and asking the perpetually asked question on every Rossi owners lips "what the heck next?"I talked to Rossi and they want to see the rifle; they already sent me a tag. Thanks for everyone's input and replies; had no idea I was going to stump you.
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Re: Anyone Seen This Before?
That is the smart thing to do. Keep us posted with the return and quality of fix!G8R8U2 wrote:I talked to Rossi and they want to see the rifle; they already sent me a tag. Thanks for everyone's input and replies; had no idea I was going to stump you.
Michael
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Re: Anyone Seen This Before?
Agreed I hope they send u one just as pretty without the cockeyed hammer.keep us postedRanch Dog wrote:That is the smart thing to do. Keep us posted with the return and quality of fix!G8R8U2 wrote:I talked to Rossi and they want to see the rifle; they already sent me a tag. Thanks for everyone's input and replies; had no idea I was going to stump you.
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Re: Anyone Seen This Before?
What a bummer. yeah that one needs to go back. ain't fixin that one at home. thanks for the post as that is definitely something to check in the future during a purchase