need better accuracy

[donhuff]

"Hodgdon lists the range as 10.5-11.5gr or H4227 with a 158gr lead SWC. are you using a gaschecked bullet? do you know the hardness of these bullets?"


I looked at the hodgdon site and got 14.5 to 16.0 max, but that was for a jacketed bullet. I did not see data for 4227 and a cast 158.

I thought the pressure should be right at 20000. I have shot hard water dropped slugs and also have powder coated those same bullets which takes the hardening out and makes them pretty soft. I can't tell any difference in the accuracy.

[phonejack]

I have a 24" also. Mine routinely puts 5 into 1/2" @ 50 yrds. Using a 158 xtp and 14.0 grns of h110.

[3sharps]

I have a Ruger Blackhawk. I haven't fired in years. My loading dies are from Herters which tells you how long I have had them. I tried some jacketed 158 grain bullets but the nose is dead soft and mushrooms when I seat them. I just measured my 10 shot groups and they measure 4 inches and 6 inches at 50 yards. I have a 94 Winchester that I had to open the front barrel band slightly and that improved the size of my groups quite a bit. Perhaps I need to do the same on the Rossi?

[donhuff]

Herters, man, they are old. most of my stuff was bought in the 70s and Lyman was the brand I chose most. But I do have most of the other brands too.

"I have a Ruger Blackhawk. I haven't fired in years. My loading dies are from Herters which tells you how long I have had them. I tried some jacketed 158 grain bullets but the nose is dead soft and mushrooms when I seat them."

Right there MIGHT be the problem, I hope! Since it is taking that much pressure to seat those slugs, I suggest that you check the diameter of the expander and also the I.D. of your sized and expanded cases. Your shooting (pun) for about 1-2 thousands under SIZED BULLET DIAMETER.....Also, pull a loaded slug and MIKE (not calipers) the O.D. of that pulled bullet. It is not to unusual for a small sized case, to size down an otherwise properly sized bullet to the point that it does not fit the barrel correctly at firing. ie .001-.002" over SLUGGED barrel diameter.

A lot of the guys shooting cast in 9mm have replaced the expander in their Lee dies with an expander that goes in the 38 S&W die, which IIRC uses a .360 size bullet. The 9mm case is super strong, and will size down cast bullets. Also remember that the case will spring back from the size of the expander ball a couple of thousands, so a .356 expander will not usually make a .356 hole. I have made oversized expanders for all my dies, to get along with the cast bullets. But you have to remember to switch back when loading jackets, or you might not have enough grip.

[donhuff]

sharps,

Since you have a 24" barrel and a hex barrel, then you should not have a barrel band. I really don't think it's the gun, but more likely the bullet.

[Xshot]

On my R92 (20" SS .357/.38) 92 I had a problem with vertical stringing. Once I eliminated contact between barrel the mag plug screw the problem went away. Previously, I relieved the wood forearm and barrel band - round barrel 92. The contact/stress they induced had previously produced random patterns in my groups. It was very apparent as the barrel heated up.

[3sharps]

Okay, I am beginning to think that I should get a modern set of dies. I think that maybe mine are squeezing the brass too small and when I seat the bullet it is taking to much pressure and deforms the bullet. Does this sound reasonable?

[44WCF]

"Hodgdon lists the range as 10.5-11.5gr or H4227 with a 158gr lead SWC. are you using a gaschecked bullet? do you know the hardness of these bullets?"

I looked at the hodgdon site and got 14.5 to 16.0 max, but that was for a jacketed bullet. I did not see data for 4227 and a cast 158.

it's there, select the 158gr bullet weight and it's the bullet at the bottom.

[donhuff]

"Hodgdon lists the range as 10.5-11.5gr or H4227 with a 158gr lead SWC. are you using a gaschecked bullet? do you know the hardness of these bullets?"

I looked at the hodgdon site and got 14.5 to 16.0 max, but that was for a jacketed bullet. I did not see data for 4227 and a cast 158.

it's there, select the 158gr bullet weight and it's the bullet at the bottom.

Maybe they are down loading it because of the cast bullet. Does it give a pressure for that max load of 11.5?

Tried it again and I still get 16.0 and 42600 CUP
And my Lyman manual sez 17.0 158 cast round nose, Hornady book sez 17.0 158 JHP, both those are with IMR4227. Then my Hodgdon manual sez 14.5 158 JHP and H4227

[donhuff]

Okay, I am beginning to think that I should get a modern set of dies. I think that maybe mine are squeezing the brass too small and when I seat the bullet it is taking to much pressure and deforms the bullet. Does this sound reasonable?

Only if you do like i suggest and find out that your cases ARE sizing down your bullets. You wont know if you don't check.