300 gr .454 bullet feeding problem

[se3388]

Got my new M92 454 and wanted to see if it would feed some 300 gr Cast Performance LBT hard cast style bullets. Well it feeds them about 75% of the time. When they hang up it's like in the picture. Their length is 1.786. Is this type of problem easily fixed? The 300 gr Lee bullet also gets stuck like the LBT bullet. The Sierra JSP bullet feeds slicker than the proverbial snot.

454 feeding.JPG

Almost in the chamber.JPG

Round #1 is a Sierra 300 gr JSP at 1.760
Round #2 is a 300 gr Cast Performance LBT Style Hard Cast bullet (gas check) 1.785
Round #3 is a 300 gr Lee gas check bullet (from wheel weight and water quenched)1.747

454 Casull.JPG

Steve........

[Ranch Dog]

Why don't you try a shorter OAL? It looks to me like the Cast Performance LBT simply cannot fit "up and into" within the confines of carrier and cartridge guides. Looking at the ogive and nose length of both lead bullets, I think they are both too long.

[se3388]

It'll be easy with the Lee bullet as it has an upper and lower cannelure on it, I seated the first 5 rounds in the lower groove so it made a longer round so now I'll try the upper groove for a shorter round.

Steve............

[donhuff]

With those wide nose bullets, you're gonna have to seat them deeper. I.786 is .021 longer than the max OAL for the cartridge. That MIGHT work with a small meplat bullet.

Here's the best write up that I have found on the subject of to long, to wide, bullet nose shapes, and reliable feeding. It's for an auto pistol but most of it applies to the rossi's too. http://38super.net/Pages/Overall%20Length.html

[akuser47]

also just from the looks of the pics you posted have you flushed your action with breakcleaner it can help smooth out overall performance of the gun. It looks like in first pic anyways that there is cosmo still in your action/bolt? remove buttstock, mag tube spring and use nonchlorinated breakcleaner and flush barrel magtube and action with buttstock removed until it come out clean then relube it with oil and check it's function. If this was already done then disregard.

[donhuff]

This got me to wondering again .........so I went out to the shop and did some piddling around with length vs shape and my 454 WHICH I HAVE NOT SHOT EVEN ONCE YET!!! I gots to get to the range with that thing.
Like that link I put in my last post shows, it's not always the OAL that gets you. What he called "the diagonal length" is the more important factor.

In the pic, all these are 454 cases and starting on the left is a 230 TC that I use in my 45 ACP pistols and also in my 45C R92 with very good success. BUT in both those guns, it has to be seated down to where just a little bit of the full diameter section is showing or it will not feed. At 1.750, it will not work in the 92. But put it in the lathe and use a file to turn it into a round nose, and it works at 1.760. The third bullet is a Lyman 454424 255 g SWC. This is what I use 99% of the time in 45C. It's very accurate and has a big enough meplat to please me. It also feeds superb in the 92 when crimped in the groove @ 1.750. Just out of curiosity I loaded it long and longer to see where it quit feeding. 1.775 it was as good as .750, but 1.800 was the limit, and you had to hold your mouth right or it might hit a snag and you'd have to double clutch it. File it down the profile a little, and it works with ease @ 1.825. I had to reduce the meplat a little and take off most of the forward band to get it to work. Then I got plum silly and sized down a Lee 405g 45-70 slug to .452, and kept filing on it until it would feed perfectly. At 1.860 it's almost .100" over book max for a 454. I could have got the other .005 but I filed one to many strokes and did not want to do it over. It will actually feed as good as the swc at 1.750. But right about there you hit the other limiting factor, the ability of the round to clear everything, on it's way up from the magazine.

[se3388]

akuser47
Thanks for the info, I flushed it just after I picked it up, what you are seeing is some Mili Tech grease I put on the bolt and a few other places while I cycled the action in.

Steve............

[akuser47]

akuser47
Thanks for the info, I flushed it just after I picked it up, what you are seeing is some Mili Tech grease I put on the bolt and a few other places while I cycled the action in.

Steve............

Cool, I just thought I would suggest just in case.

[se3388]

Thanks, I appreciate any info I can get, you never know when that one little item might be what someone needs to fix a problem. I am so close to it functioning with the 300 gr. LBT style bullets as it does work about 75% of the time. The 300 gr Lee doesn't even function at all.

Steve..............

[Ranch Dog]

I think I have finally figured out my on again off again feeding in my 454. I have decided it is my cartridge stop. It seems that the ejector is not pushing it enough (ejector not long enough) to push the tip out of the way of the cartridge rim to slip by onto the carrier. What would be your advice on how to correct this? Turn down the collar a couple thou.? I'm open to suggestions.

Steve,

One of the first things that I noticed after installing the Gunslinger Spring Kit on this rifle is that the function of the rifle improved dramatically, the same can be said of my R92 480 Ruger as well. I think a lot of the improved function is directly related to the ejector that now operates with varying spring pressure rather being held at its stop against excessive spring pressure. As I cycle the bolt, I now see the ejector moving to the needs of the cartridge being picked up and moved into the chamber.

I have two new variables in play at once, the springs and a new bullet so I still have a bit to sort out but the pickup off the carrier has been definitely improved with the new springs. I had to remove my cartridge guides to remove the shims because my new 330-grain bullet could not get up past them. It took me a while to study and figure this out but it finally came to me after care examination and measurements.

I was using my TLC454-290-RF (sized to .452") and now using my TLC452-330-RF. The amount of lead outside of the case is identical. I was seating the 45 Colt bullet shallow to make up the for the additional throat of the 454 Casull. I don't have to do that with my TLC452 as it was designed for this cartridge.



What is different and causes the need for heavy shimming of the cartridge guides is the shape of the 454 Casull case with a 45 Colt bullet seated in it. In that the case is not getting the full bullet body seated in it, the case assumes a slight hourglass shape. The cartridge on the right with a cartridge specific bullet being seated in the case has more bullet body in the case which helps maintain the cylinder shape of the case.

It was difficult to see until I held both cartridges in my hand it then it was one of those "wait a minute" moments. Out came the measure devices! Sure enough, the cases are significantly different from each other and it is directly related to bullet body support of the case walls.

Because I was using the 45 Colt bullet which was causing the hourglass shaped case walls, I had to heavily shim my cartridge guides to keep the cartridges jumping out of the rifle. The cartridge with the 454 Casull bullet could not begin to pass through the guides. I completely removed the shims and the cartridge passed without issue but the would still jump right out of the rifle. I put a single .001" shim on the right side and I'm still getting about 10% that jump out. My move today is to put a single .003" shim on the right side and hopefully that will provide 100% positive feed.