Load data/info needed for Montana Gold 158gr in 38 Special

[techiej]

Been reloading for a while and just picked up a GP100 (6") and a Rossi 92 Lever (24").

Loaded up some rounds using Montana Gold .38/158gr JHP in 38 special cases, S&B SPP and N-340 powder. Don't have the COAL with me but it was roll crimped into the cannelure.

Long story short, since I was doing load development I started at 4.5 grains and went to 4.9 and managed to stick bullets in the barrels of both guns.

With the Lever it was an easy removal. Unfortunately with the revolver I wasn't shooting and after the jacket stuck in the end of the barrel (the lead core didn't) the shooter kept shooting thinking he was missing. I guess he thought that since the prior 6 shots were great (I believe they were with the 4.9 gr load) there was no need to hold back...sigh. That gun is on the way back to Ruger for a new barrel and a bunch of $$$.

So, does anyone have recommended load data that would work for me?

Also, needless to say, I have a chronograph on order...never had to 'need' it before although yes I know I should have and it would have prevented this much pain.

Thanks in advance.

[Ranch Dog]

If you give be the bullet length and the cartridge OAL, I will run it through QuickLoad.

[ironhead7544]

The jacketed 158 gr bullets do not work well in the 38 Special. Since you have 357 Magnums, I would suggest getting some 357 brass and use the 158 gr bullets in Mag loads.

Cast bullets in 38 Specials will work just fine and are a lot cheaper. Do a net search and you will find a lot of data.

[techiej]

Trying to use the same plinking ammo for these guns as well as some others that are 38 only...and have a lot of the bullets on hand.

The COAL is 1.439 (required to roll crimp into the cannelure) and the bullet length is 0.661.

[Ranch Dog]

Loaded up some rounds using Montana Gold .38/158gr JHP in 38 special cases, S&B SPP and N-340 powder. Don't have the COAL with me but it was roll crimped into the cannelure.

The COAL is 1.439 (in order to be able to roll crimp into the cannelure). The bullet length is 0.661.

I ran the numbers you gave me through QuickLoad. Here is what spits out as a max for N340:
38 Spl - 4.4 grains 14.9 KPSI - 6" 890 FPS & 24" 1115 FPS
38 Spl+P - 5.2 grains @ 16.2 KPSI - 6" 950 FPS & 24" 1200 FPS
357 Mag - 7.2 grains @ 30.8 KPSI - 6" 1195 FPS & 24" 1455 FPS

[ironhead7544]

Since you stuck a bullet, I wouldnt use less than what Ranch Dog shows as a +P at 5.2. And I would still worry it might stick in the rifle barrel. Might be better to switch to a slower powder like 2400 for the rifle.

[techiej]

Ranch Dog,

Many thanks!

[techiej]

A couple of follow-up questions:

1) the VV pdf shows a range (38 spc) of 4.9 @ 791 fps to a max of 5.6 @ 983 fps. Does QuickLoad provide a FPS & pressure for the 5.6 load?

2) my plan was to chrono some factory 158 gr hollow-points (Remington) through each gun and then chrono loads ranging from 4.4 to 5.6 in each gun until I was close to the factory velocities...does this make sense or am I taking too much for granted given the unknown powder, bullet height, et al for the factory ammo?

Thanks everyone!

[runfiverun]

you'll have the same velocity but not the same pressure.
750 fps should be enough for the bullets to clear the barrel easily.
I think you have something else going on here/there, like light powder drops.

[techiej]

Since all of the books/VV data I have found are for handgun length barrels (some test barrels, some actual revolvers) I'm assuming (PLEASE correct me if I'm wrong) that you're talking about 750 fps from a handgun length barrel vs. my 24" lever.

My thought process in chrono'ing factory and then trying to match fps is so that all of my measurements/testing/loading would be based upon the same data points (revolver:same cylinder gap/barrel length; lever: same barrel length).

I really would appreciate any and all feedback.

FYI -- chrono should arrive this week and I should be able to get to the range sometime next week. I have prepped my test loads hand-weighing each charge. Once the powder drop was adjusted I continued to weigh each charge for the set (100 rounds) and with one exception they were all +/- 0.1 gr. The exception was off far enough that it would have been evident on my powder cop. That doesn't mean that I didn't have a problem with my original load test set but I feel confident in my new set.