general bullet selection questions

[redman2006]

New to the forum and I have a few generic questions.

Loading for a black hawk in 45 colt and a marlin and Rossi 92

I also load for 45-70 and 357.

In general, can someone educate me on the difference between the ranchdoog style bullet and a Keith? Currently I am running Keith's that are gas checked and in the 277 grain range when lubed out of the 45. I am running a 158 swc and a gc 180 grn rfn in 357/38.

The uses include punching paper and dinging steel, but these are deer and big rifles as well. Hopefully the 45 will account for a bear this year too. I tend to just shoot one load only so as to not worry with sight adjustments. In both calibers I have been running ruger only near max h110. I tried 2400, but did not get good results.

I also have a pile of old blue dot that was inherited from my father when he gave up reloading. Now I load for him. I have found a few loads I liked in the 357 with this powder, but I have yet to try it in 45.

The local gentleman that cast for me just passed away. I am having a hard time finding bullets, and this is the reason I want to learn more about the ranch dog vs the Keith.

With the powders on hand, what are suggestions?
How are leading issues with the Ranchdogs with heavier loads?
My blackhawk requires a 454 so I have just used that in all my loadings. Is that even possible in the ranch dog? I have had an issue finding much of anything with a gas check and a 454 sizing.

Basically this is a long winded way of asking about general info, pitfalls, and expectations when switching to this style bullet. I am looking forward to a smoother cycle on the lever guns.

So many questions....

I get excited about reloading. I have been accused of shooting to load instead of the other way around.

Thanks for the info.

Oh yes, similar question on the 45-70. I have been shooting a traditional slug with lube grooves and gas checks. Any thoughts on switching to ranch dogs?

[Ranch Dog]

In general, can someone educate me on the difference between the ranchdoog style bullet and a Keith?

In general a Keith Style bullet refers to revolver bullets designed by Elmer Keith. The characteristics of those bullets are based on a "improved" semi-wad cutter that has these features:

• Meplat that is 65% of the bullet caliber, but later he increased it to a 70% meplat.
• a double radius ogive
• beveled crimp groove
• three equal width driving bands. The wide forward driving band helps keep the bullet aligned as it jumps across the cylinder gap
• wide square bottomed grease groove
• a plain base with sharp corners

My "Ranch Dog" bullets are used by many, including myself, in revolvers but I've never designed a revolver bullet. My bullets (other than the semi-auto pistol bullets) are designed for rifles with a long ogive to match the leade and throat of various leverguns. The feature:

• 72% meplat as a minimum unless another feature requires different; i.e., OAL, etc.
• The "Round Flat" nose has a 3° draft cut in it. This helps a flat nose bullet fall out of the mold
• Radius edges on the transition from flat nose to ogive. This gets the bullet nose off the magazine follower, past the port in the receiver, up the carrier within the confines of the receiver, and into the chamber without getting the meplat edges beat up. Same if you eject a live round, it gets it back out of the chamber and out the ejection port without getting beat up. I use a .020" to .030" radius depending on the actual design and it's individual considerations.
• Minimum front driving band. A driving band interferes with throat fit. Ogive is what mates with the throat. There is a lot to this simple statement and it is beyond the scope of this topic.
• Lee Micro-Bands. I use a ratio of several factors to tell me how many, how wide, and how deep they need to be. It is my "secret sauce".
• Bullet base cut for Hornady gas check.

That is it in a nutshell. One designed for a revolver and the other a rifle but either can be used in the other.

[redman2006]

Thanks Ranchdog.

I understand the physical characteristics fairly well, but what about shootability? What I mean is for example, the lack of a driving band, will it cause an issue in a revolver with alignment or release of gas? If properly sized, the second should be no issue to my way of thinking.

Is it more or less prone to leading as compared to a Keith with all else being equal?

Effectiveness on game with that wide meplat, even lacking a sharp shoulder should be good...at least from my limited knowledge of ballistics.

What about trajectory? Any significant difference in that based on the difference in the ballistic coefficient?

Does that style bullet lend itself to a particular powder?

Is in more or less affected by matching sizing as compared to a Keith or other style? Reason for this is my 92 slugs at 451. the ruger is looser as is the marlin. I sized for the river and shoot the same round in all my 45's.

Anyway, I can figure it out by loading and playing with it, but I hate to waste the lead and powder when there are those that have years of experience with it and even designed it that might allow some brain picking.

Thank you sir

[runfiverun]

the ranch-dog rnfp style of cast bullets will not pose a problem in a revolver.
in fact my one and only choice for a do everything one load from targets to hunting bullet style is the rnfp type.
some of the "keith" bullets won't feed properly in a lever gun or, will only feed if seated in the case like a swc bullet with the front drive band flush with the case mouth limiting case capacity.
the rnfp bullet uses the nose to align the bullet with the throat then the driving bands align everything for the trip down the barrel.
the rounded nose lets things jiggle about for a micro-second pulling the cylinder into place finding the correct centerline.
the keith types use the front drive band to align the bullet in the revolvers throat then the nose is supposed to help align it in the barrels throat [quite often this doesn't happen] acting like a short bore rider.
when the nose is too small it allows things to become unaligned and you get spitting when the drive band makes uneven contact on the barrels face.