A question of survival !

[Ranch Dog]

Yeap, the currency exchanged is going to be denominations of in 22LR, 223 Rem, 7.62X39, 308 Win, and 50 BMG!

[wll]

Portability, firepower when needed, quiet and won't draw attention, availability of ammo, dependability, effectiveness against your main foe once state enforced rules of law and civility are removed.

My post SHTF gun - don't laugh - Ruger 10/22 take down model
Portability - Ruger 10/22 take down is very light & disassembles into 2 pieces for easy transport....the 22LR ammo has a high number of rounds/weight ratio
Firepower when needed - Ruger 10/22 is a semi and can kick'em out there pretty quick......easy to convert to full auto if you know how & I do
quiet and won't draw attention - the 22LR is almost silent compared to center fire caliber guns & can be effectively silenced with a rag......you DON'T want to advertise your whereabouts to marauding human gangs
availability of ammo - 50 pounds of 22 RF ammo is a lot more rounds than 50 pounds of center fire ammo like 223, 30-30.......I'll be shooting my 10/22 from my 50 pound pack sack supply long after your R92s & ARs have run out and there will be a lot more probability of happenstancing upon an external supply of 22 RF ammo than any other caliber.......lots of households have a 22 RF firearm of some kind.......the 22LR guns & ammo are everywhere
dependability - the Ruger 10/22 is very dependable......never had a misfire in any of my 3 x 10/22s.......easy to clean & repair
effectiveness against your main foe - the most dangerous, malicious & vindictive animal you will ever meet after (& BEFORE) the collapse of society & enforced rule of law is other human beings. Humans are very nasty but very easy to kill........that big head with its big brain is a big target........the KGB, MOSSAD & mob hit men have been using 22LR pistols as assassination weapons for years and they certainly have the demonstrated track record to know what they're doing in that regard

This thread has been pretty interesting getting folks take on security and the lever gun and whatever else.

I have a "few" ;- ) 22's also, and ammo to go around, yes don't under estimate the .22, it's a great cartridge. A good air gun or two is also invaluable for gathering food.

What I really like about the lever gun is the fact that they are generally small and relatively light and the carry a good payload for what they are. I also like the fact that reloading can be quick and it's easy to "keep her full"

The array of lever gun cartridges are enough to keep almost everyone happy, from .22 to 30-30 to .357, .44, and 45-70, just to name a few.

Also, for the folks who have dads old 30-30, 35 Rem deer rifle and don't what to buy another gun ..... they are set if they have enough ammo. The enough ammo thing depends on you, where you live and the like.

If the grid goes out, everybody will be in deep do-do for sure. The folks who live out in the country and are self sufficient now have a big head start for sure.

Being I'm a city boy, but have shot and fished all my life does not mean I can handle a "Blackout"

I remember when the Northridge earthquake hit January of 1994 in California .... one minute you are living a comfortable life in the modern era and in about 15 minutes, you are back to caveman times .... no water, no electricity, no plumbing ...NOTHING and I mean NOTHING.

I hope I NEVER have to go through that situation again. ...... of course if something MAJOR happens we are all in the same boat, and it won't be fun and it is not a Zombie movie.


wll

[pricedo]

People seem to take this lightly.
Like gasping or shuddering, humor has always been a kind of an involuntarily invoked psychological shield against fear of the unknown.
If a pandemic occurs (natural or man made), nuclear war, a terrorist nuke attack, country or world wide natural disaster and "the grid" goes out and the rule of law infrastructure disappears you'll get a chance to know what your neighbors are really like. Heck, you'll get a chance to know what YOU are really like when the primordial juices get flowing.
There have been few sneak previews of how that scenario could play out.............try the horrors of the Rwanda ethnic cleansing on a permanent basis on for size with gangs of killers roaming the streets..........it wouldn't be a good time to be the only HAVE in a neighborhood of HAVE NOTs.
I think the zombies in the TV and movie apocalypse shows symbolize those in our society who have little compunction about harming others to better their own situation and there are a lot more of them (US !) than you think.
Nobody wants to admit what we all know deep inside so the symbolic evil "carrier" the fictional zombie was invented in order to encapsulate & externalize our own natures.
To digress for a moment, this is the same kind of psychological transference & externalization of basic human nature that results in hatred and fear of guns. People who can't or refuse to come to grips with the darker aspects of human nature externalize & transfer it to a foreign object and believe that once we get rid of guns our dark side will disappear with them. This is nothing but a fictional, feel good, "mommy tuck me under the covers" bed time story but it's how some people rationalize & cope.
The raw unadulterated truth of the matter is that WE'RE the zombies
I hope SHTF day never comes and the "Alice in Wonderland" illusion of civilization we have all been role playing in for a couple of hundred years continues.
The criminals, the robbers, the rapists, the assaulters, the muggers have all GOT IT........we so called "law abiding" are the ones living an illusory fairy tale.
There is only one universal law that applies to all things human at all times past, present & future........MIGHT MAKES RIGHT or if you prefer SURVIVAL OF THE FITTEST AND STRONGEST.
Given a choice of models to live by I prefer "The Brady Bunch" to "The Walking Dead" or "Hotel Rwanda" but of the three works of fiction the latter two are factually much closer approximations to the underlying reality of human nature.
So-called civilization hasn't been around long and in the grand scheme of all things natural it is a house of cards and we could all be back in the snake pit faster than we think.

[wll]

People seem to take this lightly.
Like gasping or shuddering, humor has always been a kind of an involuntarily invoked psychological shield against fear of the unknown.
If a pandemic occurs (natural or man made), nuclear war, a terrorist nuke attack, country or world wide natural disaster and "the grid" goes out and the rule of law infrastructure disappears you'll get a chance to know what your neighbors are really like. Heck, you'll get a chance to know what YOU are really like when the primordial juices get flowing.
There have been few sneak previews of how that scenario could play out.............try the horrors of the Rwanda ethnic cleansing on a permanent basis on for size with gangs of killers roaming the streets..........it wouldn't be a good time to be the only HAVE in a neighborhood of HAVE NOTs.
I think the zombies in the TV and movie apocalypse shows symbolize those in our society who have little compunction about harming others to better their own situation and there are a lot more of them (US !) than you think.
Nobody wants to admit what we all know deep inside so the symbolic evil carrier the fictional zombie was invented in order to encapsulate & externalize our own natures.
To digress for a moment, this is the same kind of psychological transference & externalization of basic human nature that results in hatred and fear of guns. People who can't or refuse to come to grips with the darker aspects of human nature externalize & transfer it to a foreign object and believe that once we get rid of guns our dark side will disappear with them. This is nothing but a fictional, feel good, "mommy tuck me under the covers" bed time story but it's how some people cope.
The raw unadulterated truth of the matter is that WE'RE the zombies
I hope SHTF day never comes and the "Alice in Wonderland" illusion of civilization we have all been role playing in for a couple of hundred years continues.
The criminals, the robbers, the rapists, the assaulters, the muggers have all GOT IT........we so called "law abiding" are the ones living an illusory fairy tale.
There is only one universal law that applies to all things human at all times past, present & future........MIGHT MAKES RIGHT or if you prefer SURVIVAL OF THE FITTEST AND STRONGEST.
Given a choice of models to live by I prefer "The Brady Bunch" to "The Walking Dead" or "Hotel Rwanda" but of the three works of fiction the latter two are factually much closer approximations to the underlying reality of human nature.
So-called civilization hasn't been around long and in the grand scheme of all things natural it is a house of cards and we could all be back in the snake pit faster than we think.

pricedo,

All I can say is very well said !

wll

[akuser47]

Very well thought out definition to the human condition pricedo. Well put. In the worst of times, a humans worth can truely be measured by their actions and abilities to be what they truely are. The shell and vanity pushed into our society by how easy we have it hides the true monster that is dorment until this shell is stripped away and then the true human nature is exposed more than my estimated 80% will be panicked and dangerous to be exposed to. So the other estimated 20% needs to be ready for this. I need to biuld a castle with fresh water well. put all my guns and carry my 92 around the towers and walls.

[pricedo]

The forbidden fruit of the tree of the knowledge of good and evil.
80% bad, 20% good.........????
You make it sound like there's a choice mechanism in play.
Our behavior isn't dictated by fancy gold embroidered paper declarations issued by Congress called laws or the flowery speeches of Abe Lincoln & Martin Luther King or the pathetically laughable rules of international behavior of the UN.
Our behavior is dictated by the ancient code written in sequences of amino acids in the double helix strands of DNA that make up our genome.
Like it or not we are programmed critters.
The parameters for our programming are wide enough to create the illusion of free choice.
We have no more choice about acting according to our natures than Newton's famous apple did about whether to fall up or down.
Let's enjoy the fantasy of civilization while it lasts and I sincerely hope that will be til the end of my lifetime and then it won't matter.........you have my permission to blow her all to smithereens once the coppers are on my eye lids.

[akuser47]

coppers on my eyelids with inflation these days you may need silver at a min. LoL I kid I kid
The boatmans toll I rarely hear that.

[Tuco Ramirez]

you have my permission to blow her all to smithereens once the coppers are on my eye lids.

Hope you have some of the older one saved because I don't think they are made out of copper anymore. I believe the scrap price of the amount of copper was worth more than the penny....

[wll]

The forbidden fruit of the tree of the knowledge of good and evil.
80% bad, 20% good.........????
You make it sound like there's a choice mechanism in play.
Our behavior isn't dictated by fancy gold embroidered paper declarations issued by Congress called laws or the flowery speeches of Abe Lincoln & Martin Luther King or the pathetically laughable rules of international behavior of the UN.
Our behavior is dictated by the ancient code written in sequences of amino acids in the double helix strands of DNA that make up our genome.
Like it or not we are programmed critters.
The parameters for our programming are wide enough to create the illusion of free choice.
We have no more choice about acting according to our natures than Newton's famous apple did about whether to fall up or down.
Let's enjoy the fantasy of civilization while it lasts and I sincerely hope that will be til the end of my lifetime and then it won't matter.........you have my permission to blow her all to smithereens once the coppers are on my eye lids.

Pricedo !

You are so correct, we are who we are through many tens of thousands of years of programmed code. The law that a politician says does not mean anything when the ^%$* hits the fan.

We all will revert to the survival of the fittest and that is the way it is. The politicians can pass all the laws they want and it won't mean a thing because no one will pay attention to them. You will not have police on the street, as they will or could become the hunted, The guys that help protect us will have their hands full as will the fire dept and all city and county services ...if in fact we are able to have those services, It will be every man for himself, it WILL be a horrendous situation !

Great post pricedo !


wll

[thegreatzues]

The forbidden fruit of the tree of the knowledge of good and evil.
80% bad, 20% good.........????
You make it sound like there's a choice mechanism in play.
Our behavior isn't dictated by fancy gold embroidered paper declarations issued by Congress called laws or the flowery speeches of Abe Lincoln & Martin Luther King or the pathetically laughable rules of international behavior of the UN.
Our behavior is dictated by the ancient code written in sequences of amino acids in the double helix strands of DNA that make up our genome.
Like it or not we are programmed critters.
The parameters for our programming are wide enough to create the illusion of free choice.
We have no more choice about acting according to our natures than Newton's famous apple did about whether to fall up or down.
Let's enjoy the fantasy of civilization while it lasts and I sincerely hope that will be til the end of my lifetime and then it won't matter.........you have my permission to blow her all to smithereens once the coppers are on my eye lids.

Pricedo !

You are so correct, we are who we are through many tens of thousands of years of programmed code. The law that a politician says does not mean anything when the ^%$* hits the fan.

We all will revert to the survival of the fittest and that is the way it is. The politicians can pass all the laws they want and it won't mean a thing because no one will pay attention to them. You will not have police on the street, as they will or could become the hunted, The guys that help protect us will have their hands full as will the fire dept and all city and county services ...if in fact we are able to have those services, It will be every man for himself, it WILL be a horrendous situation !

Great post pricedo !


wll

i have a question and i agree with all of you , i work in beharvor health and i see lots of people that are not all there and some are and are very violent , my question to yall is if my main battle rifle is the riogrande 4570 how much ammo would be sufficient enough i have 120 rounds im sure i need more but there excpensive and heavy lol oh and also if any of yall are thinking about bugging in i would suggest the WATERBOB 100 gallons in your tube its a blatter that you put in there