.38 spl / .357 roll crimp

[DeadWoodDan]

I know this gets beat on every forum, and since the caliber and lever action are new to me thought i would clear it here.

Is it neccessary to roll crimp .38 spl for lever action? Will a taper crimp be sufficient? ALSO if different for .357mag loads (knowing these will be pushed)

More importantly I have Hornady carbide dies. Started loading last night and realized I believe my seating / crimping die only does taper crimp? OR I haven't adjusted far engough down yet trying to get a roll crimp? I have never needed a roll crimp so this is a first for me. Should i purchase a Lee FCD for this operation? or other? I preferr not to have to trim these cases but will if necessary. Cases measured so far very within .010"

Currently trying to load .38 spl cases, with Unique, win. SP primers. and these hard cast boolits 158 gr. RN ( measure .685" length );

http://shop.snscasting.com/38-357-158-G ... RN-500.htm

I have two molds i will be dropping boolits with, both LEE 105SWC and 158SWC. hoping they will function in the 20"R92. but if not i have my Ruger BH that will eat them.
Thanks
Kevin

[Missionary]

Good morning
Your taper crimp can work. But it must bear on a crimp groove or be deep enough into the bullet side that the bullet cannot be pushed into the case.
All this will depend on how many rounds you will load, how heavy a charge you are loading and how heavy a bullet. These are real factors. Spring pressure on 3 rounds is far differnt from 10 loaded rounds. Recoil on so called anemic "cowboy" loads with 105 grain bullets have far less recoil effect when compared to 180 grainers pushed by 13 grains of 2400 (.357 case).
My old Marlin (sorry do not have a caliber 357 Rossi) treats heavy loads far different. They must be well crimped. 140 grainers with 5 grains Unique (wabbit busters) and 3 in the tube need only a passing thought of a crimp.
So a little experimenting will let you know. But generally if the crimp digs into the bullet side or is in a groove you are OK. Put a dummy round together and tap it with a rubber hammer from 12 inches drop. Did the bullet move ?
Mike in Peru

[Missionary]

Howdy again
Check those bullet diameters. If they are not fat enough for your rifle exspect leading problems. With caliber .357 I want my lead boolits at least .001 over bore diameter. More important to me is the throat area. I want as fat a bullet as the throat area will take. I want excellent pressure seal at the bullet base .
Mike in Peru

[ironhead7544]

I use the Lee Factory Crimp for all pistol loads and lever rifle loads. A good crimp in necessary for a tube magazine. I like a bullet that has a deep enough groove to allow the case to be turned in about its thickness. Should be a smooth surface for best feeding. Also you will find some brass is out of spec enough to cause problems with looseness.

[runfiverun]

after you seat the bullet.
back the seater stem out.
then turn the die down until you feel it make contact with the case mouth.
lower the ram
turn the die in about 1/8th turn.
run the case back up you'll feel it make contact.
I use enough crimp that when I run my finger down the case I don't feel it catch on the case mouth.
once the crimp is set I run the case up into the die and turn the seating stem back down to contacting the bullet.
I then make slight adjustments on the next round or two to get everything the way I want it.

I really prefer to seat and crimp in two steps
simply because it is easier on both the bullet and easier to set up.

[Tuco Ramirez]

I use the Lee Factory Crimp for all pistol loads and lever rifle loads.

[mr surveyor]

I use the Lee Factory Crimp for all pistol loads and lever rifle loads.

ditto!

Even though I've heard/read all the hoopla of the LFCD sizing the cast boolits down, I've yet to experience a problem. And I load 95% cast (although not a large volume)

[mikld]

I use the Lee Factory Crimp for all pistol loads and lever rifle loads. .

I tried that once. Now my FCD resides in a landfill somewhere in Southern Oregon. I suggest that there is no need for an FCD and proper reloading techniques/methods will suffice. I used one once and it swaged down my carefully sized bullets about .002" (my Puma has a .432"+ groove diameter and the FCD swaged the bullets to .430-.431" resulting in barrel leading). I removed the carbide ring and the resulting crimp was uneven and ragged. I went back to methods that have worked quite well for nearly 30 years; for my.44s a Redding Profile Crimp or my .38s and .357s a separate Lee roll crimp die.

I would separate the seating/crimping operations into two distinct steps. If only one seat/crimp die is available, seat all without a crimp, then re-adjust the die and roll crimp, into the cannalure or crimp groove.

The .38 Special and .357 Magnums were designed to use a crimp grooved or cannalure bullet, roll crimped. For some light recoiling, target loads a taper crimp is OK, but I use a roll crimp on all my straight sided revolver cartridges.

[joec]

I use the Lee Factory Crimp for all pistol loads and lever rifle loads. .

I tried that once. Now my FCD resides in a landfill somewhere in Southern Oregon. I suggest that there is no need for an FCD and proper reloading techniques/methods will suffice. I used one once and it swaged down my carefully sized bullets about .002" (my Puma has a .432"+ groove diameter and the FCD swaged the bullets to .430-.431" resulting in barrel leading). I removed the carbide ring and the resulting crimp was uneven and ragged. I went back to methods that have worked quite well for nearly 30 years; for my.44s a Redding Profile Crimp or my .38s and .357s a separate Lee roll crimp die.

I would separate the seating/crimping operations into two distinct steps. If only one seat/crimp die is available, seat all without a crimp, then re-adjust the die and roll crimp, into the cannalure or crimp groove.

The .38 Special and .357 Magnums were designed to use a crimp grooved or cannalure bullet, roll crimped. For some light recoiling, target loads a taper crimp is OK, but I use a roll crimp on all my straight sided revolver cartridges.

For my 45 Colt and 45-70 I'm actually using a combination of dies. I started with Lee dies and buying a FCD (collet type from Ranch Dog Outdoors) however once I got into loading heavier bullets (over 250 gr) in my 45 Colt rifle and 430 and 535 gr Tombstone bullets that are both WFN bullets I picked up the RCBS Cowboy dies. Now for the 45 Colt I use the Lee dies for sizing, powder/expander die and the FCD from RD. It bullet seating crimp die I use the RCBS. The 45-70 I use all 3 of the RCBS Cowboy dies but also the Lee powder/expander die. I also have the Redding Profile Crimp for the 45 Colt but haven't used it as of yet. My 9mm and 45 ACP I use the Lee 4 die set including the FCD as they lead bullets I use don't the groove for a roll crimp and require a taper crimp. I have yet to buy dies for my 454 Casull yet but leaning towards the RCBS Cowboy dies and the Lee powder through die.

[44-40 Willy]

In my 44-40 doings, I was crumpling about a third of the cases I was trying to crimp using Lyman dies. The Lee Factory crimp die solved that issue and I haven't lost another case since. It also comes in handy when crimping jacketed bullets designed for the 44 Special/Magnum as the cannelure on those is in the wrong place for a 44-40.

For the 357, I just crimp using the regular seating & crimp die.