Reloading Data for 92 .357

[donhuff]

I break big post into cause I'm bad about hitting the wrong button and losing it all.

From my old Lyman #47 book from 1993.
357 magnum with hornady 158g JHP (not xtp) 4" vented barrel

2400......11.3 to 14.9 @ 1279

Blue Dot 9.6....11.9 @ 1319 (faster and at lower pressure than 2400??? that's odd)

Unique .....6.4 to 8.3 @ 1185

And I counted cans while I was in the shop. ONLY 39 different powders now

[Kiwi-Hunter]

Well Don, I am still hoping to get some performance out of the 140.
As for the smoking lead, I have known copper prod's to melt going down range.
Hot loads don't do the throat of the rifle any good. But we know all that.
There's nothing new under the sun. Just more heat stroke.
I was hoping you were going to come back with some real data on these.
Even when the gear arrives tomorrow, I am unable to start reloading this week.
May be the weekend??
But reloading to what?
KH

[Moon Tree]

Kiwi and others please don't think that I was trying to be a smart-A in my previous post. I would never have thought of emailing a powder company for data until a couple months ago. Like you Kiwi, I was searching the web for a Bullseye load for 125 gr RFN bullet, cause none of my reloading books had a recipe. I ran across a guy on another forum who had emailed Alliant asking for data on cast bullets. He cut and pasted the responding data on that forum. One of the loads was:
.357 case
125 gr Cast Lead or Plated
Bullseye start 5.5 grs max 6 grs I get good groups at 5.9 grains.

[Archer]

Moon Tree is correct that most component suppliers will supply you with limited data on how to use their products.

I used to contact Hercules, Accurate, Winchester, Hodgdon and IMR periodically for their pamphlets.
The information was rudimentary, mostly a listing of maximum loads for a given bullet weight by caliber with a note to reduce by 10% (3% in the case of some magnum pistol powders) and work up. I used it as a check against other published data.

I have also contacted Sierra for information on suggested loads for a specific bullet they produced for which published data was unavailable.

Hornady states that they will put selected load data for their bullets not yet covered in the manual on their website for a limited time. I was unable to find any FTX data there however. I did NOT contact them by e-mail but that would be an option.

My buddy has been contacted and has promised to look into his manual. It may be this weekend before we know anything for sure but hopefully not later.

Like Don I usually use magnum primers for powders that force it but I will also use them for 2400 and other powders that may not require them IF the data indicates their use. There are two thoughts about the use of magnum primers, one is that they are often not needed and that the extra ignition flame/pressure is detrimental to accuracy, the other thought is that with certain powders while they may not be required the extra flame aids in more uniform and solid ignition of certain types of powders, certain compressed loads or other special circumstances. In particular I've noted that Speer tends to use more magnum primers than other data. Winchester standard primers have historically been a bit hotter than other brands with a slightly harder primer cup material. I'm not so certain the current (gold colored) primers maintain those historical characteristics.

[Archer]

Don,
The Lyman 47 list the loads you note. If you look in the Rifle section of the same manual you will note basically the same loads on pages 317-318 with different velocity numbers. But the firearm used was 'Universal Receiver with special vented barrel'.

Lyman 49th edition (Rifle Data) pages 272-273
Test components: Federal cases, Trim to length 1.280", CCI 550 primers (Small Pistol, Magnum.
Firearm used Winchester 94AE 20" 1-16" twist w/.356 groove DIA.

Hornady JHP #35750 158 grain 1.590" OAL
Blue Dot 9.6 grains @ 1442 FPS TO 10.7 grains @ 1610 FPS
AA#9 13.4 grains @ 1639 FPS TO 14.9 grains @ 1774 FPS
2400 12.0 grains @ 1472 FPS TO 14.9 grains @ 1735 FPS
H110 16.3 grains @ 1785 FPS TO 17.0 grains @ 1829 FPS
IMR 4227 14.0 grains @ 1391 FPS TO 16.1 grains @ 1572 FPS

Same Source (Pistol Data) pages 356-358
Same components Same bullet and OAL
Unique 6.4 grains @887 FPS TO 8.3 grains @ 1185 FPS
Note while MOST of the pistol data is identical to the rifle data the starting loads on IMR 4227 and Alliant 2400 are higher than for the pistol data. Pistol data includes pressure readings while the rifle data does not.

[Archer]

This probably won't make things any more clear:

Hornady 5th edition Rifle Data pages 459-461
Rifle Rossi 92, 16" barrel, 1 in 16" twist, Hornady cases, WSP (Winchester Small Primers)
158-160 grain bullets #35750, #3572, #35780. COL 1.590"

AA#9 9.8 grains @ 1200 FPS TO 11.5 grains @ 1400 FPS
2400 9.3 grains @ 1200 FPS TO 13.8 grains @ 1600 FPS
H110 8.6 grains @ 1200 FPS TO 15.5 grains @ 1700 FPS
IMR 4227 12.0 grains @ 1200 FPS TO 14.3 grains @ 1500 FPS
Win 296 10.2 grains @ 1200 FPS TO 15.7 grains @ 1700 FPS

Hornady's handgun loads for the same components EXCEPT WSPM primers lists slightly different loads than the rifle data with a Colt Python 8" barrel as their sample handgun.

[Archer]

I've got the first edition Lee manual and I've got a buddy with the 2nd.
The first edition was much like the older Hodgdon manuals that collected powder data from the manufacturers and republished it with some additional formatting and particular emphasis on Hodgdon products.

More or less the same info Moon Tree was noting was usually available for free from the individual manufacturers.

Certain selected components, The Hornady FTX bullets, Barnes copper STX and STTX bullets and certain dangerous game solids in particular are of different enough construction or shape that they require modification of the data you will normally get from the powder manufacturers.

[Kiwi-Hunter]

Well some thing in that big list will be a starter.
Moon tree, I wasn't being suggestive in my reply, as we have all at times been to the company's for data.
That said ADI email today gave me a load for the XTP when the e mail read FTX so the data may be the same for both projectiles.
Not all of us have every reloading manual or can afford one. I have two and the inter-knitting.
That's the greatness of the web, I am here and you are over there, yet we are second's away.
The tried and proven method of down the range is the main facts at the end of the day, and you worked up your load to were it groups and that's all it matters.
That said I was hoping to find someone who had loaded in what ever powder that made these FTX things fly flat and group well.
The way the post has gone, it's many thoughts.
Archer's mate will put another spin on it. I did see Info on the Lilgun powder, say no more.
Then Don brings 300 to the table, Now we know he will want to try that because he like fast?
I hope you put it to the test Don.
So we all wait because of sleep pattern's and time differences
KH

[Archer]

Yeah, manuals can be expensive.
Over the course of some 18-20 years I've acquired a few:
Hornady 4th and 5th editions
Lyman 47th and 49th editions
Lee 1st ed
Accurate 1st ed
Sierra 3rd, 50th Anno, and V Editions
Speer 12th ed
Hodgdon 26th ed
Berger 1st ed

And a manila envelope of various manufacturer's free pamphlets.

I bought one or two a year when I started reloading and got a couple in mass equipment buys as someone was getting rid of their reloading stuff. I generally buy one every three or four years now to keep current and if they've any specific information on reloading for the M1 Garand and M1A that I think might be helpful. I usually try to get them on sale when I can.

I keep coming back to Hornady and Lyman as my favorites for actual data and Sierra has a lot of good information.

[Kiwi-Hunter]

Hi Archer
Thanks for the input 2400 9.3 grains @ 1200 FPS TO 13.8 grains @ 1600 FPS. Is Alliant 2400
This may be some where to start.
As you know the manuals make mistakes in some of the load format, I've have found this with Lyman a few times.
Nick Harvey's book 9th revised has 140gn with 2400 13.1 1685 15.1 1795 now I have found at times hot and light in his data mainly light.
His rifle is a marlin M 1894 Bbl 457mm 1.16 twist.
WSR primers.
case 32.75 length.
trim 32.50mm.
In the 158-160gn 2400 13.8- 1527 2400 14.8- 1628
And Don"s unique 158-160gn 9 = 1550 10.5=1700

So where's that leave us and all who spend time reading this forum.
Just more questions and no answer to I hit the range, and I am keen to blow some lead away.
a little. Question: On barrel twist rates in the 92 line up in .357 does this stay the same

KH

ADI answer
The Hornady FTX, as a longer projectile, will be seated deeper in the 357 Magnum cartridge so the charge weight will be lower than the XTP projectile for the same chamber pressure. However, you can use the starting load from the XTP data as a guide for your load development.
Please ensure that you begin your load development at the listed starting load and work up to your optimum load, watching for signs of excessive pressure such as heavy bolt lift or flattened or blown primers.
Extreme caution should be taken and loads should be worked up accordingly. Refer.

nothing new there.
KH