Bolt stuck closed after removing pin

The Rossi Model R92, a lightweight carbine for Cowboy Action, hunting, or plinking! Includes Rossi manufactured Interarms, Navy Arms, and Puma trade names.

Re: Bolt stuck closed after removing pin

Postby Nashville Stage » 06 Jul 2019 21

Your situation has me intrigued. I disassembled my 92 and have been looking at the internal parts to see what options you might have. There are a couple I can think of, but first, would you mind posting a couple of photos of your rifle? Specifically: the bolt face by the chamber (with the bolt open as far as it will travel), the locking lugs by the lever (showing the screw heads), and the hole where the magazine tube used to be (looking into the receiver)? Sometimes it helps to have a second pair of eyes look at a situation, and as they say, "A picture is worth a thousand words". I'm fairly certain we can figure out a way to get your bolt unstuck, it'll just take some patience & trying a few things.
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Re: Bolt stuck closed after removing pin

Postby 73gitane » 07 Jul 2019 00

Well I would have taken a few pictures but miraculously I was able to get the rifle functioning again. I wish I could tell what the magic step was but it's a mystery to me.

I went ahead and put the pin back in as well as the lower tang and trigger assembly and then just kept working the action and even dry firing. After a couple minutes it freed up and cycled normally. Glad to have it working again but not too satisfying knowing it could possibly bite me again.

Determined to take this thing apart I lowered the lever and then removed the locking bolts. Then after that I removed the bolt pin and then the lever. I'll continue to take it down this way if I need to in the future. I cant find anything amiss or anything that might have caused the jam but I'm pretty green when it comes to lever guns.

Over all I'm pretty happy with this Rossi in 357. It's just a lot of fun to shoot. I do have a feeding issue but I'll make another post for that.

Thanks all for your help!
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Re: Bolt stuck closed after removing pin

Postby 73gitane » 09 Jul 2019 00

Well as I wrote my last post saying all was well... in the back of my mind I wondered if if I might have been a little premature. But after cycling about a hundred times I convinced myself all was well and the jamming was behind me.

Well today I picked up the 92 and on the very first attempt to cycle it jammed. Pretty crazy. This time I was able to get to and remove the locking lugs after removing the lower tang and hammer.

So now I have it stripped down to the barrel/receiver, bolt and lever. The bolt pin has been removed but I can't drop the lever because the bolt will not slide out far enough for the lever to disengage. In fact the bolt will only move out far enough for the extractor to spring out from the face of the bolt. Then it comes to a very hard stop.

I'm trying to figure out the source of the hard stop. I don't think the left guide could hang up the bolt. The hinge of the left guide is working fine. Can anyone speculate what could possibly be hanging up the bolt? This is getting old.
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Re: Bolt stuck closed after removing pin

Postby Ranch Dog » 09 Jul 2019 06

Maybe something with the metal along where the bolt slides back and forth in the receiver. If you can get it back apart, that is where I would start. See if there is any hangup. Next would be to include the hammer in this as the bolt engages the hammer and rotates it aft as it moves aft.

When I purchased my first Rio Grande, the 45-70, the bolt was hanging up precisely as you've detailed with your 92. What I found was the bolt was being jammed in place as the hammer started its rotation aft. I spend a lot of time looking at how it hung up and decided it was a bolt problem, not the hammer. I documented the issue here: Rio Grande Scratched Cases... Bolt Binding

Even though I mention the above, don't get focused on any one thing. Just be slow and methodical in your search. It is time-consuming but worth the effort.
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Re: Bolt stuck closed after removing pin

Postby dlidster » 09 Jul 2019 08

I hesitate to speculate because it's just a respectable alternative to guessing . . . However, I had a similar experience several years ago. The culprit was a broken ejector collar. Sometimes I could get the bolt to move; other times it was securely held in place as you've described.

So, just asking . . . At that time when you were able to get the bolt out, did you examine the ejector assembly? If you're lucky enough to get it apart again it might be worth your time to examine the all the components of the ejector.
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Re: Bolt stuck closed after removing pin

Postby 73gitane » 10 Jul 2019 00

Thank you Ranch Dog, presently the hammer is removed so no binding from the hammer at least. Dlidster, I've had suspicions about the collar as well. The first time I got it apart I did inspect these parts and didn't see anything of concern.

Last night and tonight I've been watching Chasing the Moon with the rifle in my lab trying to work it free. I'll be doing the same tomorrow night:^) Hopefully I'll have some good news to report soon.
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Re: Bolt stuck closed after removing pin

Postby 73gitane » 10 Jul 2019 21

OK, I'm pretty jazzed right now. I got the gun apart and I believe I know what's happening now. I really need to show a picture or two and I plan on doing that but I'll have to search out a faq on how to do that on this forum.

So I first removed the gate and was able to see that the extractor collar and spring were all in place. I then looked over the left cartridge guide with a little more suspicion. In my mind that was the only thing that could possibly be hanging up the action. Then contrary to what I said I wold not do... I removed the screw holding the left cartridge guide in place. Now with the guide loose and sliding a bit aft in the receiver I was able to cycle the lever to a point that I was able to unhook the lever and remove it from the gun. I then grabbed that dang bolt and shoved it back by hand and it finally slid out of the receiver.

Now I took a good look at both the left guide and bolt while In my hands then moved the bolt along the top side the guide just as it would while in the receiver. To my surprise I felt it hang up! I will try to post a picture of this but I'll explain what I saw the best I can.

The left guide has an angled valley in that I believe captures the rim of the cartridge and is approximately in the middle of the guide. Now to the left of this valley and at the top edge of the guide is a very minor rise in the guide. I'm talking about a 1/8"x1/16". It just so happens that this minor rise catches on the hole in the bolt that receives the bolt pin. This is what I believe has locked up the action only when the bolt pin is removed. When the pin is installed, the minor rise in the guide cannot catch on the filled bolt pin hole.

Why does this minor rise in the cartridge guide even exist? I'm tempted to file it down but I wont do that till I get more educated.

Thanks all for reading through this. I think I'm getting closer to solving this mystery
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Re: Bolt stuck closed after removing pin

Postby 73gitane » 10 Jul 2019 23

Here' a picture of the guide. The raised polished area circled in orange is hitting against the void in the bolt created only when the bolt pin is removed.

Does anyone know what the purpose of this raised area of the guide is? Can I file it down so I no longer experience a jam? Or will that create other problems?

Left cartridge guide.jpg
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Re: Bolt stuck closed after removing pin

Postby Ranch Dog » 11 Jul 2019 05

As I recall, these pictures are from my 480 Ruger, but all of my Rossi's are the same. The point identified by your circle in your image is flat.

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Looking into the receiver, the interior surface of the guide is flat.

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I'd file the point flat with the interior surface of the guide. Good CSI work!
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Re: Bolt stuck closed after removing pin

Postby dlidster » 11 Jul 2019 16

Curiosity has really gotten the better of me regarding this situation, so I checked the left guide on each of my two 92s. On my Browning B-92, which is .44 magnum, the inner face of the guide is flush like Ranch Dog's. However, on my Rossi R-92, which is .38/.357, there's a "bump" (lump, hump) similar to yours.

Mine doesn't have a bright spot indicating contact with the bolt. If I were in this situation, though, I'd make haste very slowly. First, I'd have to absolutely convince myself the "bump" is the problem. If I were convinced, I'd slowly work the surface and monitor its contact with the bolt. Just filing it flush with the inner surface of the guide might introduce another headache that would be compounded trying to get a replacement guide from Braz-Tech.

Just had another thought . . . Can you see where the bump on the guide is contacting/rubbing/catching the side of the bolt? Is there a chance there's a spot on the bolt that was never milled truly flat or smooth? Touching up that spot might be a little less risky. But, as I said before, I'm just speculating which leaves me feeling a little guilty.
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