Deleted

[Deleted User 327]

Deleted

[TinMan]

Can't find a flaw in your logic...........

[Ranch Dog]

Yep, what you said CoSteve!

[Sarge]

Can't find a flaw in your logic...........

Nor can I. The only place I insist on an actual Winchester is with the 94, made before they controverted it with rebounding hammers, crossbolt safeties and such. Shooters, not collectors, and post 64s suit me just fine.

[Rich S]

Agree...
I am thankful for my new Rossi (SS 20"357)
I like that it holds closely to the original design
(Esp with the current deletion of the key lock)
I bought mine b/c that is what my lady will shoot.
She isn't into AR's nor SkS nor the shotgun options (in my house usually Mossberg or 870's)
But she liked the soft shooting lightweight simplicity of this design...
So if that is what she will practice with then that is what we go with.
I just got my DVD from Steve's Gunz
This gun is actually reasonably smooth as it sits but I want to make it as easy and fun as possible for her.
I'm probably going to forgo the trigger lightening as the trigger feels pretty good but do the loading gate and ejector mods then add steel magazine follower and very lightly smooth the spots he advises.
It has been reliable with 158gr sjhp so far and they are pretty soft shooting while being reasonably hard hitting...
What's not to like?
I may need a .44 for me to shoot...
:-)

[Arroyoshark]

I am most happy we can obtain lever guns from at least five manufacturers. It is comforting if ya happen to enjoy levers. I realize this is a Rossi enthusiast site and this is a Rossi lever love-fest thread, but some comments are warranted. I use examples from Rossi, Marlin, Browning, Winchester and Miroku/Winchester.

I am not jingoistic but I do enjoy Winchesters - good solid John Browning designs. New Haven Winchesters have some highs and lows in manufacture, depending upon era. Hunted for years with a 1980 era model 94 .30-30, despite it having a sintered metal receiver that resists touch up bluing.

I believe in the quip that one gets as much gun as they are willing to pay for it, generally. I must say that the Miroku Winchester levers exhibit a very high level of machining, bluing and fit & finish - inside and out. Stocks and forearms are of nice walnut. Butt plates are precisely fitted. I would speculate the manufacture is to a higher level than New Haven Winchesters. The actions are smooth, feeding is reliable from the get go, don't need to get an aftermarket CD to get the lever to function properly. Miroku/Winchesters are good to go the moment ya remove them from the box. Yeah, they cost more than a Rossi R92, but a quick search of sales tells me the margin in pricing between a Rossi and a Miroku/Winchester is getting smaller. The overall quality, reliability and accuracy of the recent Miroku/Winchester 1892's cannot be dismissed. I will add that the Miroku/Winchester 1892 can sure hunt and it is not babied.

I do not get any more strident over the rebounding hammers and tang safety on the Miroku/Winchesters I do over the bolt mounted safety on the Rossi R92. The latter, however, can be disguised with an aftermarket plug, but the bump is still there.

The Miroku/Winchesters are not just Japanese made copies that are permitted to roll-mark the barrels, "Winchester". These arms, along with those marked Brownings are manufactured specifically for Winchester and Browning. It's just like the famous Weatherby's being produced by Howa for Weatherby or earlier Browning arms made by FN. They are all fine arms.

I am not a collector, but I most certainly appreciate a finely made working lever gun.

I use a 70's era Marlin 1894 that once was one stubborn sunuvagun to make run reliably, especially with semi wadcutters and .44 spl. I finally turned into a smooth operator by replacing the cartridge elevator with a current production version.

A Rossi in .45 Colt came my way and it was not even broken in. It was not a smooth operating action at the start, but it now feeds cast SWC if you vigorously snap the lever open. I didn't get the CD, but a few hundred rounds has smoothed things out considerably. It is not the true rendition of a Winchester 1892 either - just examine the contour of the receiver to know that. There is that bolt mounted top safety to deal with that's not part of the original 1892 design. The machining of some of interior surfaces is crude. The steel butt plate appears to have been bent or hammered into final shape and fit. it seems all appropriate, I suppose, to its price point. Getting past all that, the arm does now shoot well. I don't knock the results.

I don't have direct experience with either the Uberti's or Henry''s.

It is a little sad that the Lever Action Carbine is an American developed phenomenon, yet other than Henry, none of the classic 1873's, 1886's, 1892's, 1895's etc. are manufactured domestically, but that's life - at least we can still obtain renditions from other countries.

[Nashville Stage]

As an interesting but related aside: I can't remember where I heard it, but someone made the point that with manufacturing processes of 100 years ago, materials were much more expensive than labor. Spending lots of man-hours on an item wasn't a big deal, and while the quality of the materials might not have been superb, the fit & finish of a skilled craftsmen who could spend time on an item would be quite good.

Over the years, everything from economies of scale to global shipping & infrastructure have lowered the cost of materials so much that things have flipped, & now labor is the more expensive portion of manufacturing. Hence the gradual shift of manufacturing to locations where labor costs can be kept to a minimum.

Technology has also played a role. As the precision & control over manufacturing tolerances has gotten better, less labor (both skill & quantity) is needed for assembly. The more consistent that parts can be made, the less hand-fitting is needed, and the easier it is to put things together. The concept of having drop-in interchangeable parts as a part of manufacturing is actually a relatively new achievement. A firearms history channel on YouTube that I watch (C&Rsenal) made an interesting point: The modern assembly line that Henry Ford brought to popularity wasn't a novel concept in its day. People had the idea, but it didn't become feasible until mass manufacturing tolerances became good enough that you could easily interchange parts without having to hand-fit everything... a feat that was largely worked out in firearms manufacturing before it migrated to the automobile.

[GasGuzzler]

My Rossi 1892 copy has never had a plastic part on or in it nor has it ever had a transfer bar, hammer lock, or safety lever or button of any kind. When new, it was about half the price of a Winchester in 1987 dollars. From what I've seen, it's 93% of the gun the 1987 Winchester 1892 was.

Custom fit parts and craftsmanship disappeared with modern CNC capabilities. Chalk it up to progress or blame labor unions. Either way you'd be correct.

[Archer]

All three of my Rossi 92s came with plastic magazine followers.
Two of the three came with nearly unfinished wood and the third has a stained but not sealed stock.
All of them cam with the butterfly flip safety.
Mine have been smooth functioning but there are edges that were not deburred and machine marks through out both on the inside and the outside.

I have 3 Miroku Winchesters and they are all beautiful in fit and finish and the function is smooth. Any fault I find with them is that perhaps they are still too close to the original design. Not that I'd exactly want to change that but were I to put out a 'new' updated version there are a few changes that would increase the durability and perhaps functionality. But then the angle eject Winchesters didn't revolutionize any firearms trends when they came out. Their price point was still becoming hard to compete with bolt actions and semi automatics of newer design.

I have several New Haven Winchesters. They were for the most part a working man's gun and I enjoy them a lot.

I don't like it that U.S. cars are produced in Mexico.
I've heard horror stories from others in the Aerospace and electronics industry attempting to have parts manufactured in Mexico and the total lack of understanding they are met with. (One factory foreman was quoted as saying 'Can't you design the part so the workers can put it together wrong and it will still work?!?')
(Another engineer told me that the translator in Japan 'softened' his response to a Japanese inquiry about changing the design from "If you do that it will NOT work!" to 'It is not the best way.' As a result after months waiting for the factory product they got an inoperable box of crap and had to take the Japanese engineer to the lab and show him the working breadboard prototype.)

I'm not wild about Brazilian manufacturing processes and lack of quality control and customer service.
I'm not so rich or stuck up that I'll turn my nose up at a working Rossi or Taurus but at the same time if a nice Winchester or Browning shows up at the right time and price I'll not turn it away either.

Sometimes you get what you pay for.
You always pay for what you get in one way or another.

My advice has remained pretty consistent: Buy what you want and can afford. If you can't afford it right now then start saving. You will be much more happy with what you want than you will buying something you don't want. Regardless of what you buy inspect it with a fine toothed comb. Look for a good deal and count your change.

[GasGuzzler]

Saw a JM stamped octogon barrel 38-55 yesterday. I bet that's not too common. I'm not interested.....espcially for $1000.