Just seems to me that if you take a bunch of ammo with pointy, plastic tips and cram them end to end in a spring loaded tubular magazine, eventually they're going to get deformed and accuracy will suffer. JSP's and hard cast bullets have worked very well for a long, long time. Why do we suddenly "need" something else?medezyner wrote:Ya, I hear you regarding the "gummy tips". My only reason for buying them was to address the nonexistent problem of detonation of pointed (spitzer) in a tubular magazine. No pointies, no boom. I really only bought them to see if there was any accuracy improvement. Although I feel that the WWB is running a little slower than I'd like especially if I want to run them in my 6" Smith.rondog wrote:The Winchester White Box jacketed soft points are all you need. Fancy schmancy and expensive gummy tips or hollowpoints ain't necessary.
92 .44 Mag Carbine Ammo for Deer
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Re: 92 .44 Mag Carbine Ammo for Deer
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Re: 92 .44 Mag Carbine Ammo for Deer
I dont think Elmer would be impressed with the flex tip gummys, since he made 400 plus yd shots on big game with a flat nosed bullet.
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Re: 92 .44 Mag Carbine Ammo for Deer
Out of revolvers.Mad Trapper wrote:I dont think Elmer would be impressed with the flex tip gummys, since he made 400 plus yd shots on big game with a flat nosed bullet.
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Re: 92 .44 Mag Carbine Ammo for Deer
If only I could shoot even half as good as Elmer with a rifle as he shot with a revolver, my freezer would be filled. Talk about "practice, practice, practice"! Even reloading, where did he find the time & money? Impressive.rondog wrote:Out of revolvers.Mad Trapper wrote:I dont think Elmer would be impressed with the flex tip gummys, since he made 400 plus yd shots on big game with a flat nosed bullet.
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Re: 92 .44 Mag Carbine Ammo for Deer
The other night I was reading a chapter in Elmers book, Sixguns.
He talks about some old retired Cavalry officers he got to know up in Montana, back in the early 1900s.
They had fought in the Indian wars in the late 1800s.
The Officers talked about being pinned down out on the plains one time, Indians were on horseback shooting their rifles at them.
The Officers said they only had army issued sidearms, colt SAA 45 LC with 7.5" barrel.
They told Elmer how they had to learn, rather quickly, how to shoot long range accurately against the rifle toting Indians, making them to stay back,so they could escape.
He talks about some old retired Cavalry officers he got to know up in Montana, back in the early 1900s.
They had fought in the Indian wars in the late 1800s.
The Officers talked about being pinned down out on the plains one time, Indians were on horseback shooting their rifles at them.
The Officers said they only had army issued sidearms, colt SAA 45 LC with 7.5" barrel.
They told Elmer how they had to learn, rather quickly, how to shoot long range accurately against the rifle toting Indians, making them to stay back,so they could escape.
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Re: 92 .44 Mag Carbine Ammo for Deer
Mad Trapper wrote:I dont think Elmer would be impressed with the flex tip gummys, since he made 400 plus yd shots on big game with a flat nosed bullet.
I don't really believe that would be the case. There is not a lot of record of Keith using the lever action format. When a young man he hunted with a lever in .25 caliber, but he did not appreciate the results and moved on to larger calibers, including .45-70. He was a hunter and practiced for long range shots from both rifle and handgun, of that much has been written, of course. He was dissatisfied with bullets commonly available so he crafted designs that worked for him well. Keith worked with what was then available, and he prodded manufacturers to bring about products he perceived as being improved.
Jacketed handgun bullets came into more common use toward the end of his life when he was not quite as active. I saw Keith as a curious and pragmatic person who went after what worked best for him, and if it wasn't available he designed it. Given the longer range ballistics of the "gummy" pointed bullets, I can't imagine Keith not appreciating the design - especially if it would have produced results for him.
Like most of us who reload, cast lead is more economical, and it does yet remain effective option for hunting. On the other hand, it's hard to discount new projectile developments that can produce improved results in hunting situations. We've got more options today than Keith had in his time.
BTW, on a recent drive back from Idaho, I spotted Elmer Keith's old ranch on the North Fork of the Salmon River, between Salmon and Gibbonsville, ID. It is marked, "Keith Lane", and has remained in the Keith Family since Elmer moved to town. I drove in and saw the old homestead and out buildings. It was easy to imagine him passing the time casting bullets and testing arms while the hay was growing and between writing and guiding. The family has the ranch up for sale now for around $8 million if anyone is interested.
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Re: 92 .44 Mag Carbine Ammo for Deer
Hornady 240 gr XTP's are pure magic on deer. I've shot many from as close as 20 yards out to near 100 yards. Every one with the same result. Bang, flop, no tracking required...
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Re: 92 .44 Mag Carbine Ammo for Deer
Those numbers, if I am right, they are factory specs, from a Revolver. Not from a Rifle.medezyner wrote: Here's what I've got (for now):
PPU JHP 240 1541/1267
Amer Eagle JHP 240 1230/805
Rem JSP 180 1610/1036
Win WB JSP 240 1180/741
PMC Bronze TCSP 240 1497/1194
PMC Starfire SFHP 240 1340/957
Hornad XTP 200 1500/1000
Hornad LEVERevolution 225 1410/993
From a rifle, they will deliver quite a bit more.
Federal Hydra schock 240 grains does 1210fps from a 4" revolver, and 1613, from a 20" Henry Big Boy
http://www.ballisticsbytheinch.com/44mag.html
Federal has a hunting load, POWER•SHOK HANDGUN, that does 1760 fps, but it doesn't say, if that, is revolver or rifle.
https://www.federalpremium.com/products ... ndgun/c44a
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Re: 92 .44 Mag Carbine Ammo for Deer
I grabbed a box of the 200 gr XTP's - probably should have got a box of 240 while I was ordering. I do like hornady and shot them out of my redhawk hunter with good accuracy.bigloop92 wrote:Hornady 240 gr XTP's are pure magic on deer. I've shot many from as close as 20 yards out to near 100 yards. Every one with the same result. Bang, flop, no tracking required...
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Re: 92 .44 Mag Carbine Ammo for Deer
More than likely the specs i listed were out of a 6" revolver. I figure I can expect another 20% of velocity out of the carbine. 1760 fps for the power-shok sounds high. Must be from a rifle, but I can't see them posting rifle specs from a handgun cartridge. That wouldnt be cool.JRexA wrote:Those numbers, if I am right, they are factory specs, from a Revolver. Not from a Rifle.medezyner wrote: Here's what I've got (for now):
PPU JHP 240 1541/1267
Amer Eagle JHP 240 1230/805
Rem JSP 180 1610/1036
Win WB JSP 240 1180/741
PMC Bronze TCSP 240 1497/1194
PMC Starfire SFHP 240 1340/957
Hornad XTP 200 1500/1000
Hornad LEVERevolution 225 1410/993
From a rifle, they will deliver quite a bit more.
Federal Hydra schock 240 grains does 1210fps from a 4" revolver, and 1613, from a 20" Henry Big Boy
http://www.ballisticsbytheinch.com/44mag.html
Federal has a hunting load, POWER•SHOK HANDGUN, that does 1760 fps, but it doesn't say, if that, is revolver or rifle.
https://www.federalpremium.com/products ... ndgun/c44a
"We deal in lead, friend."
- Steve McQueen, The Magnificent Seven
- Steve McQueen, The Magnificent Seven