Puma model 92 454 Cal.

[44-40 Willy]

Question there what does one gain with a 24 Inch barrel over one that is twenty inch's long ?

Not a 45 Colt, but 357 Mags here but the extra inches on my 24" 1892 gives a few hundred fps over my Marlin 1894C with it's 18.5" barrel. And I use slow burning powders in my hand loads to make the most of the longer barrels.

[pricedo]

Question there what does one gain with a 24 Inch barrel over one that is twenty inch's long ?

Not a 45 Colt, but 357 Mags here but the extra inches on my 24" 1892 gives a few hundred fps over my Marlin 1894C with it's 18.5" barrel. And I use slow burning powders in my hand loads to make the most of the longer barrels.

The fact remains you can only get so much powder in a 357 Mag case.
The 357 Mag isn't a 350 Remington Magnum.......it's not even a 35 Remington no matter what powder you use because of the constraint imposed by case capacity.
The empirical data I have seen suggests that there is not much gain in velocity with barrel lengths over 16" with rifles firing pistol cartridges like the 357 Mag, 44 Mag, 45 LC and even the mighty 454 Casull.
Case capacity limits the effect of using more slower burning powder and rapidly climbing chamber pressures limit the effect of using high energy fast burning powders.

[Ranch Dog]

Case capacity limits the effect of using more slower burning powder and rapidly climbing chamber pressures limit the effect of using high energy fast burning powders.

Based on my pressure trace work, I agree with this statement. These cartridges have a very small range of powders that work well to maximize the potential of the short case rifle.

[Quinc]

Does anyone on the forum have a Rossi 454 lever action? I am on the list for one and it's going to cost 540$ after tax and FFL fee's etc. Do you guys think that is a deal or should I wait and buy somewhere else? Also how hot of loads can you push with it?

[Harry Snippe]

Question there what does one gain with a 24 Inch barrel over one that is twenty inch's long ?

Not a 45 Colt, but 357 Mags here but the extra inches on my 24" 1892 gives a few hundred fps over my Marlin 1894C with it's 18.5" barrel. And I use slow burning powders in my hand loads to make the most of the longer barrels.

The fact remains you can only get so much powder in a 357 Mag case.
The 357 Mag isn't a 350 Remington Magnum.......it's not even a 35 Remington no matter what powder you use because of the constraint imposed by case capacity.
The empirical data I have seen suggests that there is not much gain in velocity with barrel lengths over 16" with rifles firing pistol cartridges like the 357 Mag, 44 Mag, 45 LC and even the mighty 454 Casull.
Case capacity limits the effect of using more slower burning powder and rapidly climbing chamber pressures limit the effect of using high energy fast burning powders.

So 24" model 92 in 45 colt has not much to gain over the 20 " other than maybe a longer site radius.I am looking for something to just span the handle bars of my ATV -- So I would think a 20 " 454 would be the ticket if suddenly I spang apon a young moose .Range is usually no more than 60/75 yards , so too one is not undergunned with a 30/30.
A 44 or 45 bullet would just leave a bigger hole and a blood trail

[44-40 Willy]

For what it's worth, I'm not buying into what Pricedo is putting out about slower powders and longer barrels as my testing in 357 Magnum rifles over a chronograph says otherwise. But I'll just agree to disagree.

[pricedo]

For what it's worth, I'm not buying into what Pricedo is putting out about slower powders and longer barrels as my testing in 357 Magnum rifles over a chronograph says otherwise. But I'll just agree to disagree.

I'm not saying there won't be increases in velocity just not significant increases for barrel lengths past 16" if SAAMI case dimension and chamber pressure maximums are observed.
But significant is a relative term and different people have different ideas what is significant.
Post your chrony data and the powders you're using and we can draw our own conclusions.
It should be an interesting and informative study.

[dpe.ahoy]

If you found a 454 at that price of 540, I'd say get it. I bought 2, a used 20" blue and a new 16" Stainless, The stainless Trapper was right at 450 two years ago and they were still able to be found. Haven't seen any but mine since I bought the Trapper. DP

[Quinc]

If you found a 454 at that price of 540, I'd say get it. I bought 2, a used 20" blue and a new 16" Stainless, The stainless Trapper was right at 450 two years ago and they were still able to be found. Haven't seen any but mine since I bought the Trapper. DP

What is your favorite load for it? Have you shot any bullets over 350gr? =)

[Deleted User 327]

I believe that Ballistics by the Inch (BBTI) has a flaw in it's philosophy and implied conclusion in that it uses commercial ammo for it's testing that is formulated expressly for pistols which have short barrels. This means the ammo tested is formulated by the manufactures to work best in short barrels. Handloaded ammo can be formulated to utilize the advantage of the longer rifle barrels.

I've done some chrono work on my special handloaded 38spl+P, 38spl+P+, 357mag, and hot 357mag loads using H110 powder out of both my 20" and 24" Rossis. The results I got show that at lower charge weights of slow burning magnum pistol powders, the longer 24" barrel produces lower velocities than a 20" barrel, however, at hotter charges of slow burning magnum pistol powder produce higher velocities in the 24" barrel than the 20" barrel, contrary to BBTI's implied results.

My chrono results are as follows:
▪ Range Conditions: Elevation - 6,100ft asl, Sunny, 84°, light wind
▪ All loads used 158grn Zero JSP bullets, CCI SPM Primers, and H110 powder at varying charge weights (psi calculated by Quickloads.)

Load, OAL, and Max Pressure ................. 20" Carbine ........ 24" Rifle
38spl+P - 1.460" OAL, at 18,500psi: ........... 1,421fps .......... 1,356fps
38spl+P+ - 1.500" OAL, at 23,000psi: .......... 1,551fps .......... 1,521fps
357mag - 1.580" OAL, at 35,000psi : .......... 1,789fps .......... 1,822fps
Hot 357mag - 1.580" OAL, at 37,000psi: ...... 1,941fps .......... 1,977fps

This data clearly shows that the longer barrels produce slower velocities when using slow burning H110 powder and the lower weight charges of the 38spl levels, however, it also shows that the longer barrels produce higher velocities when using maximum charges of slow burning H110 powder at 357mag levels, contrary to BBTI's results. As a comparison and for general information, I also tested these same 38spl+P+ and 357mag level loads in my Uberti 1873 SA Cavalry Model pistol (7.5" barrel) with the following results.

Load, OAL, and Max Pressure ................... Uberti SA
38spl+P+ - 1.500" OAL, at 23,000psi: .......... 1,181fps
357mag - 1.580" OAL, at 35,000psi : .......... 1,332fps

These results clearly show that even when comparing with a long barreled pistol, both the hot 38spl and full 357mag charges produce significantly higher velocities in the longer, carbine length and rifle length barrels. As the 45 Colt can be safely fired from the Rossi M92 leverguns when loaded with the same H110 powders at high levels, I'd expect the same type of results out of the 24" rifle over the 20" carbine when using maximum charge weights.