Traded into a Circuit Judge

[Ranch Dog]

Well, after spending 12 hours with the CJ today I think it might be a better scattergun than rifle. At least for me, I'm done considering it. Just too many things that inhibit accuracy. For starters, the revolver action; gap to jump into a forcing cone. Sure, issues with revolvers are considered and resolved all the time. The CJ has the 3" cylinder thrown into the mix and that sure does not help with the accuracy issues. Additionally there is the choke tube at the end of the barrel. The rifling stops prior to the crown and the bullet travels another 1"+ in a smoothbore until it is free of the barrel. What I'm seeing after considerable shooting is a rifle that is capable of 5" to 6" 50-yard groups best.

I did not enjoy shooting the shot strings. This is a revolver with all the blow from the shot the only difference being that it is in your face. I would suggest that a long sleeve shirt always be worn when shooting the rifle as well as goggle style safety glasses. While shooting today, I had a 15 mph wind at my back and still managed to get debris in my eyes despite wearing good shooting glasses. I did not wear that long sleeve shirt and as I type this my left (support) arm feels singed. Throughout the day of shooting, there were several times that I felt combustion matter striking my arm with significant force. On the last shot of the day, I had what I think was a particle of burnt powder penetrate my lower lip. At the finish of the day, the rifle is coated with significant residue; stocks, scope, everything.

I've been moving a number of firearms through my dealer, stuff that I haven't shot in awhile. The CJ4510 is going to be turned this week, the shortest period I've ever owned a firearm. I was curious about the firearm and that curiosity has been satisfied, it is not a firearm I'm interested in.

[pricedo]

Well, after spending 12 hours with the CJ today I think it might be a better scattergun than rifle. At least for me, I'm done considering it. Just too many things that inhibit accuracy. For starters, the revolver action; gap to jump into a forcing cone. Sure, issues with revolvers are considered and resolved all the time. The CJ has the 3" cylinder thrown into the mix and that sure does not help with the accuracy issues. Additionally there is the choke tube at the end of the barrel. The rifling stops prior to the crown and the bullet travels another 1"+ in a smoothbore until it is free of the barrel. What I'm seeing after considerable shooting is a rifle that is capable of 5" to 6" 50-yard groups best.

I did not enjoy shooting the shot strings. This is a revolver with all the blow from the shot the only difference being that it is in your face. I would suggest that a long sleeve shirt always be worn when shooting the rifle as well as goggle style safety glasses. While shooting today, I had a 15 mph wind at my back and still managed to get debris in my eyes despite wearing good shooting glasses. I did not wear that long sleeve shirt and as I type this my left (support) arm feels singed. Throughout the day of shooting, there were several times that I felt combustion matter striking my arm with significant force. On the last shot of the day, I had what I think was a particle of burnt powder penetrate my lower lip. At the finish of the day, the rifle is coated with significant residue; stocks, scope, everything.

I've been moving a number of firearms through my dealer, stuff that I haven't shot in awhile. The CJ4510 is going to be turned this week, the shortest period I've ever owned a firearm. I was curious about the firearm and that curiosity has been satisfied, it is not a firearm I'm interested in.

I was told the CJs were an absolute waste of money but I didn't want to state that at the onset of this discussion in order to give the gun a fair trial.
I can see that the anecdotal pre-assessment was born out by the quoted review.
Maybe Rossi can fix some of the mentioned design shortcomings in future versions........back to the old drawing board.

[pricedo]

On second thought I think the CJ would make a novel frame for a steel guitar.

[Ranch Dog]

Maybe Rossi can fix some of the mentioned design shortcomings in future versions........back to the old drawing board.

On second thought I think the CJ would make a novel frame for a steel guitar.

hehehe... Now that would be a great idea. It is going to be hard to fix holding a 45 Colt handgun 4" to 6" from you face! How about this, all that metal in the middle being removed and a bolt action receiver being put in there that is chambered for pistol cartridges. Ruger's 77/357 seems to be doing quite well.

Definitely singed my left forearm and left cheek yesterday. No telling how much lead my body absorbed! Seriously!

[pricedo]

Maybe Rossi can fix some of the mentioned design shortcomings in future versions........back to the old drawing board.

On second thought I think the CJ would make a novel frame for a steel guitar.

hehehe... Now that would be a great idea. It is going to be hard to fix holding a 45 Colt handgun 4" to 6" from you face! How about this, all that metal in the middle being removed and a bolt action receiver being put in there that is chambered for pistol cartridges. Ruger's 77/357 seems to be doing quite well.

Definitely singed my left forearm and left cheek yesterday. No telling how much lead my body absorbed! Seriously!

That thought had occurred to me.
Like a Remy XP-100 on a bigger scale.
The .221 Fireball had more horsepower (some loads over 1000 ft-lbs at the muzzle) than most pistol cartridges of the day so if this thing is going to be on a bigger frame chamber it in .30-30 WCF on the low end, .35 Rem, .308 Win, 30 TC, and the .300 WSM. 325 WSM on the high end.
These would be bolt action guns so as to differentiate them from the Thompson Contender line of break open single shot rifles and they would MSRP a lot cheaper than the TCs.
The barrel options could be 12", 16", 16" 18".
The gun has a generous butt pad & pistol grip and a closed system bolt action makes a lot more sense than a vented revolver action with the shooters face so close to the boiler room..

[Ranch Dog]

Like a Remy XP-100 on a bigger scale.

That is pretty much what I'm thinking!

While cleaning this rifle to get in back to the dealer, I find the aft end of the forearm is actually scorched!

[pricedo]

Like a Remy XP-100 on a bigger scale.

That is pretty much what I'm thinking!

While cleaning this rifle to get in back to the dealer, I find the aft end of the forearm is actually scorched!

I don't know about sales volume but as far as I'm concerned the RC in its present configuration is DOA........a nonstarter.
I like the idea of an ultra light, upscale XP-100 with a butt-stock in SA standard and WSM calibers.

[Meirbubba]

I love my Circuit Judge, especially now, with the "Steve Gunz" type action job, and having the stock dremmeled to allow a 5 Star speed loader. I also have shot 45 acp with moon clips.
I have no trouble with my shields protecting my arms as well as my stock. I don't use reloads. Hornady and Federal and Winchester PDX 1. I usually shoot at the range 3-4 hours, so I really don't know how it would do after 12 hours of shooting. I have shot 75 yards and have been pretty darn accurate with the standard sights. The trigger job and the fluff and buff job has made a difference and I am pleased with the stock job by the "Stock Doctor". It's also cost savings to use the 45 acp. I applied Froglube to my stock and the small amount of powder wiped right up. I love Foglube.

[pricedo]

I love my Circuit Judge, especially now, with the "Steve Gunz" type action job, and having the stock dremmeled to allow a 5 Star speed loader. I also have shot 45 acp with moon clips.
I have no trouble with my shields protecting my arms as well as my stock. I don't use reloads. Hornady and Federal and Winchester PDX 1. I usually shoot at the range 3-4 hours, so I really don't know how it would do after 12 hours of shooting. I have shot 75 yards and have been pretty darn accurate with the standard sights. The trigger job and the fluff and buff job has made a difference and I am pleased with the stock job by the "Stock Doctor". It's also cost savings to use the 45 acp. I applied Froglube to my stock and the small amount of powder wiped right up. I love Foglube.

Different strokes for different folks......beauty is in the eye of the beholder.
A couple of my close friends married girls that I thought were as homely as a brush fence.
You look for certain things in a gun and it looks like you found them in the CJ you bought and I'm glad you're happy with it.
Others had a less positive experience.
It might have been because of a difference in the specific guns or a difference in the shooters expectations.
Rossi firearms have been known to be quite variable in quality from gun to gun even within the same model group and the same manufacturing lot. I know this cause I have been buying and selling Rossis years before they became a fad.
If the disgruntled shooter picked up a different CJ he might say, "Well, this is more like it !"
Who knows?
Unfortunately in many cases first impressions are lasting impressions.
As a veteran Rossi owner I know that if one Rossi gun doesn't run worth a darn I just pick up the next one beside it on the rack and it might run like the proverbial Swiss watch.
Trial & error.....trial & error is the name of the game when buying Rossi guns and I don't think that paradigm is going to change anytime soon.

[Meirbubba]

I agree. I knew that about Rossi before I bought my Circuit Judge and Ranch Hand. This is why I took the extra step with "Steve Gunz" with my Ranch Hand and the same with the Circuit Judge. I took the extra steps and $$$ to make them as they should have been out of the factory.
I forgot to mention that my shooting buddy shot my Circuit Judge at a hundred yards with 3" groupings consistently. My eyes aren't as good as his. My daughter(21) also shot at a 100 yards with nice groupings. Same with the Ranch Hand.