Broken 92 trigger spring screw, HELP

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Re: Broken 92 trigger spring screw, HELP

Postby akuser47 » 01 Apr 2014 13

Good get er done and keep us posted.
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Re: Broken 92 trigger spring screw, HELP

Postby klr » 01 Apr 2014 14

Ranch Dog wrote:Well then they need to start cleaning the crap out of the action that they pack in there prior to shipment. I really like my Rossi's because of the time I've got in them but this policy will prevent me from buying any more.


Amen. After shooting my daughter's 92 I was saving for my own but not now after reading about the stuff they are pulling. My daughter is saving for a companion 357 revolver and I was going to recommend a Rossi/Taurus but not now.

What a shame.
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Re: Broken 92 trigger spring screw, HELP

Postby Archer » 05 Apr 2014 01

In spite of finding this site before getting my Rossi levers I was NOT aware of the parts policy.
I have NEVER dealt with a firearms company, even one that sold imported firearms that had a similar policy. I have two more 92s on my wish list but I will NOT be buying Rossi guns while this policy is in place.
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Re: Broken 92 trigger spring screw, HELP

Postby Archer » 05 Apr 2014 01

klr,
As for Rossi/Taurus handguns. I hear from my friends that they do stand behind their warranty but I know two or three folks who have had to use that same warranty multiple times on the same gun.
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Re: Broken 92 trigger spring screw, HELP

Postby Ranch Dog » 05 Apr 2014 09

I have a huge number of Taurus handguns and the Rossi 351. I've had one handgun claim outside of the first year and the shipping was expensive in that it needed to be next or two day by FedEx/UPS policy. FedEx was the cheaper of the two but it was still about $65. I thought I needed a firing pin spring but Taurus said I also needed to replace the trigger bar, slide, and firing pin. That was done at no expense to me and the pistol was sent back at their expense in six days. That is the good side of sending it back I guess. I would have spent a bit of time chasing the light primer strike issue which is not good on a defensive handgun.

When I set at designing a "Ranch Dog" series of pistol self defense bullets, I ordered a dozen Taurus semi-autos to serve as test mules. Over the course of four months, I had four warranty returns. All but one of these were my fault because in this work I can put a lot of stress on a frame. It is very easy to get a chamber cast stuck in a locked action and damage it getting it out. Taurus paid for the return in the first year and repaired these handguns at no expense to me. I will never forget the CS telling me to keep what happened to myself, it would be repaired. The only return that was their fault involved a front sight that popped off in the first series of shooting the pistol. I guess it could have been prevented if I had tested the torque of the attach screw on the inside of the slide. They had a hard time of getting me the correct from sight. This was a third generation of the Millenium Pro and each generation had several sight options and those options had gone through several evolutions. Brazil had not documented the changes by serial number or any other qualifier. During the call after evaluation the fit of the third sight sent, CS asked if they could just get FedEx to pick up the pistol that day. It was returned four days later.

Where that story leads to is the fact that I got to know my FedEx driver quickly in that I sent four back in a very short time period. He covers a large part of Texas that is very heavy into firearm ownership. I could point off toward to any of my neighbors around the compass and not one of them has less than 25 to 30 firearms. I asked him if this was going be the norm Taurus and I will never forget his reply: "Dude, they ALL go back. If somebody tells you one doesn't, they don't know what they are talking about. I do."

I personally think that the parts problem resides in Brazil. If you factor in the cultural difference of firearm ownership between our country and theirs, I don't think they "get" the needs of an American gun owner. It is not about needing a part, it is about having that part on hand. I think we like critical parts immediately available through some type of source but if they aren't, we want them sitting on our bench. A firearm enthusiast does not want to send a firearm back to the manufacturer. Giving up control of my firearm and possibly having it locked into waiting period for parts interferes with my 2nd Amendment rights and my need for self defense. If you are going to be in the business of supplying firearms to American's, you need to be in the business of supply parts. Leave the freedom to send it back to the manufacture or repair it yourself to the owner that bought it, not the manufacturer. That is the cultural differences that I don't think that Brazil understands; they are trying to control our freedom of ownership. It is almost as if they think they still own the firearm and we simply are "leasing" it for the fee we paid.

Okay, as a fellow that controls "ranting", I'm getting close to that and will stop. I've relay my experience and thoughts as a fellow that has sent them back and bought parts before the restriction. I currently own thirty four Braztech firearms but the parts restriction needs to be lifted before I buy another.
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Re: Broken 92 trigger spring screw, HELP

Postby mr surveyor » 05 Apr 2014 10

that was an excellent "non-rant", and pretty well covers the entire subject. I just hope the powers that be in Brasil actually understand how close they are to either being the number one lever gun supplier to the mass market in the U.S., or being known as third rate. I think they are at the crossroads right now and have less than a year to settle the issue. Someone will eventually fill the slot of serviceable lever guns with readily available replacement parts

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Re: Broken 92 trigger spring screw, HELP

Postby Ranch Dog » 05 Apr 2014 11

I think Mr. Kresser has his work cut out for him and I actually feel for him as I have conducted business in Brazil in a past life. I can only image what the mindset in a firearm business is like as Americans have a unique perspective on firearm ownership.

The weird thing is that Taurus is in the business of making parts: Metal Injection Molding, and solicits business to keep their machines and employees working.
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Re: Broken 92 trigger spring screw, HELP

Postby mr surveyor » 05 Apr 2014 12

One thing I keep remembering from several years ago is how even "lowly Kel-Tec" (just saying that as it seems to be the public perception for the most part) cut their warranty returns considerably by offering replacement parts. Absolutely no telling how much money they saved by sending (usually free) springs, firing pins, roll pins, hammer blocks and other small parts to owners in order to save both parties the shipping costs and the manufacturer's labor (as well as a whole lot of time for owners to get disheartened).
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Re: Broken 92 trigger spring screw, HELP

Postby ironhead7544 » 06 Apr 2014 08

I have one last R92, a 24 inch rifle in 38/357. It hasnt been fired and I have decided to sell it due to this policy. One poor guy lost the bolt pin screw. I noticed that a lot of new R92s have a loose bolt pin screw. When tightened down it locks the bolt and needs fitting. Easier to just back it out. He was told he would have to ship the brand new rifle back to get the screw.

The Henry Big Boy is on my list. They will sell you almost any parts and will sell the restricted parts to a gunsmith.

Until the policy changes, no more Rossi products for me. And I really liked the 2 inch 44 Mag revolver.
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Re: Broken 92 trigger spring screw, HELP

Postby Archer » 07 Apr 2014 02

mr surveyor wrote:that was an excellent "non-rant", and pretty well covers the entire subject. I just hope the powers that be in Brasil actually understand how close they are to either being the number one lever gun supplier to the mass market in the U.S., or being known as third rate. I think they are at the crossroads right now and have less than a year to settle the issue. Someone will eventually fill the slot of serviceable lever guns with readily available replacement parts

JD


The position they are fighting for is tied for first or somewhere 4th or lower IMO.

Part of that depends on what the other manufacturers are going to do. Whether or not Mossberg can and will continue to produce a quality gun or whether they are going to cheapen them up like they are doing on their department store 500s where they are molding the action bars into the forend instead of using a metal tube liner with the bars welded on like they have been doing for the past 30 years. IF Marlin/Remington is going to produce a quality gun or if they are going to slap some gun shaped object together or get out of lever actions all together. IF Henry can put out enough guns that you can find them on the racks or at least at the warehouses when you want one and are willing to pay for it. Whether or not Winchester/Browning/FN is ever going to cater to the shooter rather than the gentry with regards to prices and availability.

I asked him if this was going be the norm Taurus and I will never forget his reply: "Dude, they ALL go back. If somebody tells you one doesn't, they don't know what they are talking about. I do."
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I'll agree they all do go back.
Some because people are stupid, some because of manufacturing issues. I've seen two Beretta's blown up one clearly was smearing lead down the barrel when it happened. I know a guy through the net who's blown up two H&K .45s using a published load that is above maximum in more than half my books. I know of three Kimbers that should have flunked QC for being mismachined in a mostly cosmetic way at the ejector retention pin hole. Then there was the Kimber Pro Carry that was placed in a hydro sonic cleaner that boiled off the anodize on the frame. Glocks that were returned because the owner decided to stipple them with a wood burning kit or a soldering iron. Ruger 1911s where the breachface J cut was mismatched enough to engrave the fired case heads. I know a fellow who used a Taurus .22 for training purposes when friends wanted to go shoot who's had to send it back for timing issues twice in two and a half years. I know another guy who had to return a couple millennium series guns. One was fixed and returned no problem but the other had to be replaced and due to CA's rather stupid laws the gent received a completely different model than what he'd sent in for work. Unfortunately the new gun didn't fit the owner and it also exhibited less than acceptable reliability. Living in CA makes it even more important that in the case of handguns the weapon be not only reliable but durable. No matter how good the warranty may be if the manufacturer has stopped paying the extortion fee to the state to keep it on the DOJ Roster of Approved handguns then a replacement isn't going to work. I've seen 3 or 4 Rossi revolvers going out or coming back at various shops for timing issues. In every case the owner expressed the intention to get rid of them and get something from Smith or Ruger.

Restricting screws and punishing owners because they dare take the gun apart in search of broken parts or burrs that are causing functional problems is going to result in a lot of guns getting sold as soon as they come back from the 'factory service', a lot of guns parted out on E-bay and a reputation that means IF one is on the shelf it won't even get looked at no matter how reasonable the price. The shop I hang out at sees a lot of noses turned up when the lever actions on the wall are identified as Rossi guns. People will pay twice as much for a gun they don't have to worry about sending back or that they can get parts to work on if they have to.
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