Uberti New Cattleman 357 mag

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pricedo
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Re: Uberti New Cattleman 357 mag

Post by pricedo »

joec wrote:
pricedo wrote:
jmay wrote:Joec exactly! A horse is a big dang animal. In those days 45 killed from grizz to snakes!
I wouldn't be hesitant to use my 18" bbl 1873 revolver +guns carbine for deer hunting.
The video indicates to me that the Uberti 1873 revolver action (which is the same one used in the carbine) is well built.
Actually other than the 454 Casull the 45 Colt is probably the best black bear gun made, that is the Ruger Blackhawk shooting the bullets from 280 gr to 325 gr. I recently read and article by a guy that uses it for Black bear. He tells of a friend that thought the 357 mag with modern JHP would do the job. He is lucky he survived it after he empties his gun the bear gave him a pretty good butt whipping before his hunting partner got a shot with a rifle. It really is a rather funny story as in April 2013 issue of Handloader Magazine. The article is called "Six Guns and Proven .45 Colt Handgun Loads for Hunting Bear". I also have a feeling that Ranch Dogs 290 gr bullet would also fill the bill from a Rossi 92 in 45 Colt loaded to Ranch Dogs level of loads for them.
When you have to deal with the bigger bears (over 500 pounds) the 454 Casull & 45-70 with heavy hc lead bullets eclipse the 45LC.
With the heavily loaded rounds featuring 335 grain hc flat nose bullets @ 1950 fps I wouldn't hesitate to say the 92/454 is an adequate defense firearm for any North American animal.
Likewise my Guide Gun with the 430 grain hc lead flat nose bullets @ 1750 fps will take any animal from the Gulf of Mexico to the center of the Arctic Circle.

As a non dangerous game hunting firearm the Uberti New Cattleman 357 mag is adequate for deer but I'd be hesitant to use it against potential sourpusses like big hogs or black bear who have demonstrated a serious deficit of humor at being shot & wounded in the past in that they will attempt to remove flesh & body parts from the shooter if given the chance.
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Re: Uberti New Cattleman 357 mag

Post by jmay »

Wouldn't under estimate the old 357 with the proper ammo. I have taken lots of pigs with 6" S&W 686 several 350 lbs +. Hit em with 180 partition @ about 1500 fps they fall like a house fell on em. The only time it got harry was my fault I accidentally loaded up with my 125 grainers for target shootn and would you know I run into big daddy. Took 3 shots and a little tree climbing but I made out better than he did!
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Re: Uberti New Cattleman 357 mag

Post by joec »

pricedo wrote:When you have to deal with the bigger bears (over 500 pounds) the 454 Casull & 45-70 with heavy hc lead bullets eclipse the 45LC.
With the heavily loaded rounds featuring 335 grain hc flat nose bullets @ 1950 fps I wouldn't hesitate to say the 92/454 is an adequate defense firearm for any North American animal.
Likewise my Guide Gun with the 430 grain hc lead flat nose bullets @ 1750 fps will take any animal from the Gulf of Mexico to the center of the Arctic Circle.

As a non dangerous game hunting firearm the Uberti New Cattleman 357 mag is adequate for deer but I'd be hesitant to use it against potential sourpusses like big hogs or black bear who have demonstrated a serious deficit of humor at being shot & wounded in the past in that they will attempt to remove flesh & body parts from the shooter if given the chance.
First to be completely clear I wouldn't hunt with a hand gun, any of them other than as a last resort. Secondly the article is about acceptable hand guns for black bear as found in the lower 48 states. An last but not least I find the 357 very inadequate for serious hunting of any kind other than perhaps humans and small dogs.
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Re: Uberti New Cattleman 357 mag

Post by jmay »

I agree to a point Joec rifles are superior to handguns. I have killed many pigs cleanly with 357 in a 6" barrel so it can be done. I can't speak for killing black bear because I have not had a chance to do so, but wouldn't hesitate to shoot 350 pound black bear with my 686 and some of my loads. All guns of any caliber are inadequate with inadequate shooters!
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Re: Uberti New Cattleman 357 mag

Post by joec »

jmay wrote:I agree to a point Joec rifles are superior to handguns. I have killed many pigs cleanly with 357 in a 6" barrel so it can be done. I can't speak for killing black bear because I have not had a chance to do so, but wouldn't hesitate to shoot 350 pound black bear with my 686 and some of my loads. All guns of any caliber are inadequate with inadequate shooters!
I'm sure a 357 will kill a pig or dear but sure wouldn't want to use one with a bear, that is except to shoot your buddy in the leg and you keep running. :D
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Re: Uberti New Cattleman 357 mag

Post by jmay »

Now I can agree to that +guns
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Re: Uberti New Cattleman 357 mag

Post by Model 52 »

joec wrote:
pricedo wrote:
jmay wrote:I think the 357 is little sturdier than 45 due to being designed on same frame and cylinder but only being bored to fit 357 it leaves quite a bit of extra metal. At list that's what I have heard!
Makes sense that would be the case.
Too bad the 45 caliber models weren't a little more robust.
The gun would make a decent 50 yard deer gun.
I'll use it for that any way.....shot placement will be everything.
The reason is the are replicas of the original 1873 SAA and other than modern steels etc they are the same as the originals which where all Colt guns. They might be a bit more robust that you think if you watch this also keep in mind Italian as most European ammo is a bit stronger than our USA made stuff. Now I do believe a 45 Colt loaded with black powder can stop a deer as they sure have stopped a horse of two over the century or so they have been around. It is just a matter of distance and accuracy I would think.
Most firearms will tolerate initial proof loads without noticeable damage, however a steady diet of high pressure loads at far lower pressure than a proof round will cause long term wear and damage to most of those same weapons.

In this case, it's not the cylinder walls I'd worry about as much as it is the frame and the potential for stretching to occur over a number of rounds. It's not that older single action colt and colt clones blow up with steady use with hot loads, but rather they get loose and rattly over time due to stretching of the frame.

The degree to which an Italian made clone will be susceptible to this probably varies quite a bit. In a firearm you need parts that are "tough" for strength, but you also need parts that are "hard" for good wear resistance. Unfortunately, hard steel is brittle steel that is not very tough. That's where face hardening of steel parts in guns comes into play and again the trick is to get the outer surface hard for good wear resistance while leaving the inner core soft and tough in order to handle the loads without permanent expansion or breakage.

What I saw on the video convinced me that Uberti is relying on over engineering in the time honored tradition of the old west and that perhaps quality assurance is not as high on the priority list as it could be. For example, the technician was torquing and timing the barrels onto the frames with an obviously not very precision made stick and using a calibrated eye ball to ensure the front sight is perpendicular to a frame (that is itself not flat across the top). I suspect a similar low tech approach is used in the other areas of the plant as well and that effects how I regard the precision of the metallurgy and hardening processes involved. It's good enough for standard .45 Colt loads, but it does not inspire me to treat it like my Blackhawk. Now, none of that is particularly bad as again for the intended loads the pistol is over engineered, you have a generous margin of safety, and assuming it survives the trip to the proof house, all other failures with regular .45 Colt loads will be non catastrophic in nature. Consequently there is no need to go any farther and spend more time and money for higher QA that exceeds the need and engineering requirements of standard .45 Colt ammunition.
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Re: Uberti New Cattleman 357 mag

Post by Model 52 »

joec wrote:
jmay wrote:I agree to a point Joec rifles are superior to handguns. I have killed many pigs cleanly with 357 in a 6" barrel so it can be done. I can't speak for killing black bear because I have not had a chance to do so, but wouldn't hesitate to shoot 350 pound black bear with my 686 and some of my loads. All guns of any caliber are inadequate with inadequate shooters!
I'm sure a 357 will kill a pig or dear but sure wouldn't want to use one with a bear, that is except to shoot your buddy in the leg and you keep running. :D
I saw a sign at a gun show this weekend, talking about how well a small .25 caliber pistol worked for self defense against bear, with the satisfied customer's testimony as follows:

"Yeah, when that grizzly charged I just took my pistol and shot my girlfriend in the knee cap. I was then able to escape while the grizzly was busy mauling her. This little pistol saved my life!"
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Re: Uberti New Cattleman 357 mag

Post by hutch »

jmay wrote:I picked up a Uberti NM Cattleman in 357 while doing some gun trading. It shoots well looks cool, besides that don't know much about it. What makes it the New Model, is there anything i should know about this pistol? What kinda of pressure should I keep under while loading for this guy? Any info appreciated thanks!
WHA? No pic's? I'm thinking that should be a law. (or at least a rule) - hutch
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Re: Uberti New Cattleman 357 mag

Post by jmay »

Sorry Hutch I'll see what I can do
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