Revisting Rem 660, Win 308
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Re: Revisting Rem 660, Win 308
I have tried in earnest to answer a question i have regarding cartridge trim length. Referencing several books i have on the matter of reloading has not done it for me. So either its a stupid question and so obvious that it does not need any further explaination, OR its never been thought of as i'm thinking. Since the latter is not likely, i'm just going to have to ask. The trim length of the .308 is 2.005". Max case length is 2.015". That max case length coinsides with the SAAMI spec diagram. Now, considering case life, or not, is this data giving me 0.010" to play with when considering what i should trim my cases to? Or, when i read in my lyman manual and other sources that case trim length is 2.005", that is in fact what i should be trimming my brass to. Amazing how ten thousandths of an inch can play on your mind. Other considerations on my part had me thinking i could trim the cases uniformly at any length between 2.005 and 2.015, as long as its in the zone, all is good. Thats the best i could make sense of it with my right or wrong, black or white kind of thinking. Your two cents is appreciated.
Dave M
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Re: Revisting Rem 660, Win 308
Doc, I usually trim to the recommended trim length at least once in the life of the cases. If for no other reason it keeps crimping uniform. Two possible exceptions are the 270 and the 7x57mm cases that are shot only in Ruger #1s and they get held at the SAMMI spec. These are mostly neck sized as long as I don't see a chamber fit problem developing and the necks don't seem to grow much over 5 or 6 firings.
In the end I believe that if you stay between the trim to spec and the SAMMI length spec you wont go wrong.
Make smoke,
In the end I believe that if you stay between the trim to spec and the SAMMI length spec you wont go wrong.
Make smoke,
Curt... makin' smoke and raising my carbon foot print one cartridge at a time
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Re: Revisting Rem 660, Win 308
Thanks Curt for your reply. This is once fired brass and not from this rifle, so the initial full length resizing was done. Future neck size only until conditions warrant full length again was my thinking. Much of what i had read noted considerable stretching upon first firing. I guess it settles down some what afterwards. Your first comment of trim length on first go around is a good practice to follow? So if that is a good rule of thumb then that is what i will do. Then is it safe also to say that after several loading of the same brass, it is then you have the 0.010" to work with until you max out again.
Dave M
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Let us tenderly and kindly cherish, therefore, the means of knowledge. Let us dare to read, think, speak and write.
John Adams
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Re: Revisting Rem 660, Win 308
For me trimming is about 2 things.
1) being below maximum length to avoid the case overrunning the chamber length.
2) Consistent crimp. Since most of my firearms have been lever actions or semi automatics that more or less require crimping to make sure the bullet isn't setback in the magazine or pulled by the round stopping in the chamber from the speed of the load cycle this tend to be the bigger driver.
It doesn't really matter WHAT you trim to as long as your trim length is somewhere less than maximum and more than a minimum and if crimping with a roll or shoulder die style crimp the length is consistent. The minimum may be on the SAAMI spec or it may be somewhat arbitrary.
1) being below maximum length to avoid the case overrunning the chamber length.
2) Consistent crimp. Since most of my firearms have been lever actions or semi automatics that more or less require crimping to make sure the bullet isn't setback in the magazine or pulled by the round stopping in the chamber from the speed of the load cycle this tend to be the bigger driver.
It doesn't really matter WHAT you trim to as long as your trim length is somewhere less than maximum and more than a minimum and if crimping with a roll or shoulder die style crimp the length is consistent. The minimum may be on the SAAMI spec or it may be somewhat arbitrary.
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Re: Revisting Rem 660, Win 308
If it's once fired it may have that initial stretch and after trimming you may not see a lot of "growth". Not sure that trimming to the trim to is a best practice, just my practice and over the years since '67 hasn't lead me too far off the path. Safety and consistency being my watch words when loading any case, the trim is one step on that path.NavyDoc76-80 wrote:Thanks Curt for your reply. This is once fired brass and not from this rifle, so the initial full length resizing was done. Future neck size only until conditions warrant full length again was my thinking. Much of what i had read noted considerable stretching upon first firing. I guess it settles down some what afterwards. Your first comment of trim length on first go around is a good practice to follow? So if that is a good rule of thumb then that is what i will do. Then is it safe also to say that after several loading of the same brass, it is then you have the 0.010" to work with until you max out again.
Make smoke,
Curt... makin' smoke and raising my carbon foot print one cartridge at a time
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Re: Revisting Rem 660, Win 308
For those interested, i called Remington today to discuss the recall that was initiated many years ago to see if it was still covered or reconized by them. The recall was due to accidental discharge which requires a trigger assembly replacement which is also part of the safety mechanism. Michelle at Remington said that the 600 and the 660 is now under a class action suit and would need to go through them to get the work done. For more information, go to
http://www.remingtonfirearmsclassactionsettlement.com
For more information.
http://www.remingtonfirearmsclassactionsettlement.com
For more information.
Dave M
--//--
Let us tenderly and kindly cherish, therefore, the means of knowledge. Let us dare to read, think, speak and write.
John Adams
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20" SS .45C
--//--
Let us tenderly and kindly cherish, therefore, the means of knowledge. Let us dare to read, think, speak and write.
John Adams
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Re: Revisting Rem 660, Win 308
Figured out how to set up the resizing die today so there is a proper chamber fit. I'd say their is a little bit more to it compared to pistol cartridges. Of course like most things starting out I had to learn the hard way. I had already full length sized all that I had ( around 200) and trimmed to length half of them when I thought I should chamber some for gp. Well as you might guess the bolt wouldn't close, so I was back to square one. Figured out what I needed to do and have the die set up for production tomorrow. My bud brought the primer swag back and gifted me some powder for this round, no excuse after putting my hands on some primers now.Ohio3Wheels wrote:Doc, I usually trim to the recommended trim length at least once in the life of the cases. If for no other reason it keeps crimping uniform. Two possible exceptions are the 270 and the 7x57mm cases that are shot only in Ruger #1s and they get held at the SAMMI spec. These are mostly neck sized as long as I don't see a chamber fit problem developing and the necks don't seem to grow much over 5 or 6 firings.
In the end I believe that if you stay between the trim to spec and the SAMMI length spec you wont go wrong.
Make smoke,
Dave M
--//--
Let us tenderly and kindly cherish, therefore, the means of knowledge. Let us dare to read, think, speak and write.
John Adams
20" SS .357
16" SS .44
20" SS .45C
--//--
Let us tenderly and kindly cherish, therefore, the means of knowledge. Let us dare to read, think, speak and write.
John Adams
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Re: Revisting Rem 660, Win 308
Better that you left them too long than too short. My first bottle neck was a 6.5/06 and I thought I followed the usual instruction on setting the sizing die and that thinks were cool, until I started getting incipient case separations. A couple cracks a 1/2 inch a head of the case head got my attention real quick. Through away a bunch of cases, made new so I had a slightly hard to close bolt and haven't another one try to split.
Make smoke,
Make smoke,
Curt... makin' smoke and raising my carbon foot print one cartridge at a time
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Re: Revisting Rem 660, Win 308
I understand exactly what your saying. The proof of course will be in the pudding, but I did resize as you stated with just a slight snug push to close. That said, until I experience it for myself I won't know if its really correct, I do appreciate your input curt, it gives me some confidence that I'm on the right path here. I have some 4895 and am going to use the Nosler load data with there Varmagettan (??spelling) 110gr bullet. As previously posted, it looks like I'll be shipping her back to Remington to have the trigger replaced, so may be awhile before the true test can begin. I'll let ya know when I do.Ohio3Wheels wrote:Better that you left them too long than too short. My first bottle neck was a 6.5/06 and I thought I followed the usual instruction on setting the sizing die and that thinks were cool, until I started getting incipient case separations. A couple cracks a 1/2 inch a head of the case head got my attention real quick. Through away a bunch of cases, made new so I had a slightly hard to close bolt and haven't another one try to split.
Make smoke,
Dave M
--//--
Let us tenderly and kindly cherish, therefore, the means of knowledge. Let us dare to read, think, speak and write.
John Adams
20" SS .357
16" SS .44
20" SS .45C
--//--
Let us tenderly and kindly cherish, therefore, the means of knowledge. Let us dare to read, think, speak and write.
John Adams
20" SS .357
16" SS .44
20" SS .45C