360 Dan Wesson cartridge in a Rossi 92 357

[donhuff]

I have been thinking about trying this mod for a long time now. And a couple other post have sparked my interest again. So I did a little work on my 357 and low and behold.....the 360DW feeds just as well as a 38 does.

Because of this (thanks RD) http://www.rossi-rifleman.com/viewtopic ... des#p39648
Today I got out my trusty dremel tool (couldn't find a file!!!) and took off about a 1/16" or less, like RD did. I did it pretty rough to just to get an Idea if it might work before proceeding.

I already had some DW brass that I got for another project. For those that do not know the 360 DW was made for silhouette shooting, to give a 357 bullet a little more umph, so it would knock down the 200 meter rams better. The case in longer at 1.410- 1.420" long compared to the 357 at 1.280"

So loading up a few to see how they cycled was easy as loading bullets. The COAL is 1.720". It seems that most of the jacketed bullets tend to have a nose length from the cannelure to the tip of right on .300". I think they do this so that the bullets when crimped in the groove will fit most any revolvers cylinder. Cast bullets on the other hand, can be anything and you would have to pick the right one to keep the OAL from getting to long. Looks like RD's 175 grain at .315 just might be able to work. ( can you run that in QL to see what the velocity looks like RD).

Some might say so??? Well if your into shooting heavy bullets you know how much those long bullets seated in the crimp groove, stick into your case capacity. that's taking up room that wold usually be occupied by MORE POWDER. And I'm talking about .140" more room for powder.

Using H110 powder because it's so fine, and filling to the rim. I get 27.5 grains into the 357 brass, and 31.0 into the 360 brass. Three and a half grains is enough to make you think about it, eh? This guy really likes his rifle modded to take the 360 http://www.wideopenspaces.com/360-dan-w ... ge-rifles/

and lots of data going up to 43,000 psi. Since it is not a factory round, I guess they did not knock it back like they did the 357.http://handloads.com/loaddata/default.a ... er&Source=

And before you say "but that ruins my gun for 357 mag". Not really, as when you shoot 38 in the 357, the bullet has to go a long way to get to the rifiling doesn't it. Same thing with the 360, just a little further to go. I loaded the mag on my gun with a mix of all three sizes and it cycled without a hiccup, I could not close the bolt completely because the chamber has not been reamed longer to accommodate the extra length cartridge, but they did the rest of the cycle fine. Could you imagine the felt recoil if shooting live rounds like this. One round with 3.0 grains of bullseye, then the next with 20+ grains of H110. That might make me flinch a little.

There are a lot of guy shooting the H&R handi rifle like this because the chambers tend to be long in those guns. They do not even have to ream the chamber on most of em. Then some ream all the way to fit the max in them at 1.600" long case.

What do you think about all this?

[Ranch Dog]

What do you think about all this?

I say, why not especially if you want to shoot the thing a bit further or use on big game.

[donhuff]

If it hindered the use of 357mag, then I would have to maybe get another rifle to try it on. But since you can use all three, I think I'll have to try it.

Lengthening the chamber will also let me tailor the leade/throat area to something a little more prone to be accurate, like a a throat that is .001- .002" bigger than the bullet, instead of being a straight taper, down from the chamber walls.

Looks like they are claiming 150fps increase over the 357. That's not a whole lot but if you were to be able to add that much to your 190g hog load and it sped up to 1920fps from 1770. That should make quite an increase in the terminal performance I would think. I know that can't happen as the round can only be 1.720 inches, so it's shy .030 of increasing the powder capacity as much as the case length grew. I wonder how much you can trim back the guides??? That is the limiting factor right now as 1.720 is as long a round as will come up from the carrier through the guides. I think I can actually get a 1.750" +- a few .000s, to move from the magazine to the carrier, and then swing up and start into the chamber before the guides stop the rim and make a jam....I need a spare set of guides!

[GasGuzzler]

I get 37.5 grains into the 357 brass, and 31.0 into the 360.

This seems backwards.

Otherwise I think it sounds cool. Is that brass easier to find than .357 Max?

[donhuff]

Thanks Gas, I fixed that.


Right now yes as starline has just made a run. They do that ever so often when they have enough people ordering it. Plus...it's starline and not remington.

I'm fixing to order 500 more for this project and another one I have in the works that uses the same brass as a start.

But usually, when there aint none ...there really aint none!

Good thing with this mod is that if you do not have the DW brass, just load long in 357 brass. Or shoot 357s, or 38 specials!

[donhuff]

Well, I couldn't stand it any longer. So I went out to the shed and finally found a file. It was a chainsaw file but it worked really well for modding the guides. The place where I was doing the filing actually needed to have a little radius in the bottom of the cut, so it was just right.

Now I can feed a cartridge with an OAL of 1.750" just as easy as a 38 special. This is all working out really well. It would even feed a cartridge at a length of 1.765, but that one had a .30/.32 caliber bullet in the case. More about that in a few months.

[klr]

Well, I couldn't stand it any longer. So I went out to the shed and finally found a file. It was a chainsaw file but it worked really well for modding the guides. The place where I was doing the filing actually needed to have a little radius in the bottom of the cut, so it was just right.

Now I can feed a cartridge with an OAL of 1.750" just as easy as a 38 special. This is all working out really well. It would even feed a cartridge at a length of 1.765, but that one had a .30/.32 caliber bullet in the case. More about that in a few months.

Interesting. This may get you near 35 Rem territory.

The .30/32 sounds like you're developing a 300 Blackout rimmed.

[donhuff]

I just looked at 35 rem data and it uses 31 to 41 grains of powder. Thats a lot more than you'd be able to put in the 360DW. But it only goes to 33,500 psi. But yes, if things work out like the plan, the velocity looks to be getting real close to the 35 rem.

People seem to compare a lot to the 35 rem. I guess it was really popular back in the day? I have never had any dealings with it and never paid it much attention. Maybe I should have!


30/32 Glad you noticed that! I keep thinking about making a 30/357 in the rossi. Like a modern 32/20. I think it would make a fun gun. I also like the 30 in the DW brass for a magnum version. And with the mods I have done to my 357 rossi, these rounds go through it like greased owl snot. And you are right about the 300 blk out. It actually is the same thing. Though I do not see the need or purpose of shooting 250 grain projectiles in it. Or sub sonic loads, that's not really a lever gun sorta thing. What I see it doing is launching a 110-120 grain bullet at close to 2100 to 2400fps. Might not get quite that fast as the blackout operates at high rifle pressures, and I would want to keep this one down in the 40,000+ range like the brass was made for.

The 30/357, or as I like to call it the 30 R92,has been done several times and seem to be a good sensible wildcat. Easy to reform brass for and the base brass is cheap, plentiful, and strong. This one ought to get a 100-110 grain bullet right close to 2000fps, and should make a great cast bullet rifle with lighter loads. I would like to have a 32/20 lever,I keep looking at this and wondering if I could do it. And I love his load of 5.0 Unique and a 115g bullet.

[Ranch Dog]

When you talk about the 35 Rem, you talk about my second favorite cartridge (the first is the 444 Marlin). The only thing that held it back is the strength of the original Model 8 that it was designed for. Unfortunately, all the data is for the 33,500 CUP (36,000 PSI), based on the Model 8. In the Marlin 336, I think it is good for 42.0K PSI and my Rem 600 at 60.0K PSI. The only place I've seen this kind of data is through Wolfe Publishing's Load Data which is a subscription service. IMO, Remington really missed out when they did not chamber their 722 & 788 in this cartridge. I was always watching for a 722 that I could rebarrel until I decided to go ahead and spend the bucks for the 600.

I'm sitting back enjoying your thoughts and looking forward to your work Don! Good thinking on the chainsaw file, I tend to look at my gun room tools when working but yes, that would be the perfect tool for cartridge guide work. The last time, a week or so ago, I talked with Rossi CS they did have the complete guides for the 357 Mag in stock. They run about $55 but I think one set in the box is a worthy investment. No doubt you would get your money back on eBay.

[Ranch Dog]

If this were my project and with the pressure coming up, I would have to restock the rifle to get away from the curved, metal butt plate.