Small Trucks?

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Re: Small Trucks?

Post by Archer »

GasGuzzler wrote:The market has expanded too wide for there to be a single solution...in fact there is no solution that covers all the bases. Each manufacturer has chosen what they think the proper path to sales is. There is no point to me, at least the path Chevrolet and GMC took. Why pay 85% price for 65% of the truck that then loses 75% of its value in the first three years.

My 2007 Sierra 1500 2WD is worth 1/3 it's MSRP still. Try that with a bloated mini-truck. No, I don't trade often (my last one was 14 years old with 267K miles when I sold it) but for that reason it seems these "small" trucks are akin to throwing money away.
...
Of the mini trucks the only one that retains resale value is the Toyota Tacoma although the Ford Ranger is too new to know at the moment.

The Ranger is running a 2.3 engine as the only option. The cockpit is nice and the back seat may be a bit roomier than the other vehicles but supply is limited on the lots and the dealers seem to be bringing them in stripped to try and keep the price point down. Aftermarket options are limited because it has only been out a couple months. I am not certain I trust a small engine running turbo compared to a larger engine doing it's thing at a lower RPM. The 10 speed transmission is probably nice and the truck is probably set up more for road than the other trucks except the Ridgeline. Ford claims a new frame for the U.S. market. The rear seat folding action doesn't get it much out of the way.
And the local dealer ROYALLY hacked me off assuming I was either an idiot, desperate or stupid and unable to do simply math rolling into 'a standard deal' their anti theft locator and kill switch ($1500) a 4 year warranty for $4K on a vehicle with a 3 year mfg warranty and offering me an interest rate that is 4X what my credit union offers. ($7K in additional interest over and above the rate I know I can get) I probably should have expressed myself a bit less nicely about the 'offer'.

I totally agree with you regarding the Canyon/Colorado in that they are quite expensive for what you get and not nearly as capable. They just aren't very comfortable to sit in and if you drive it back to back with a 1500 you probably won't buy the small truck. A year ago I could have purchased a leftover 1500 for less than I could have gotten a leftover Colorado for at the same time and the 1500 was a nicer truck. I'd have had to remove the stupid drop in bed liner and patch the holes the incompetents the dealer hired to put them in left however. Looked like he had the kids from 8th grade auto shop do the job for pizza.

I rented a Tacoma for a week. I like the truck and it's a better driver than I expected at first. It is set up more for off road than the others. The rental was a 4x4 and I don't really need that capability. It sucks gas during acceleration and although it will run like a scalded dog the gas mileage suffers at highway speeds over 70. I think I got an average of about 16MPG mixed driving and running off design point. The seats are not electric and the adjustments are pretty basic. The steering wheel adjustments one ALL the mini trucks are pretty limited but combined with the manual seating adjustments I found myself knee knocking the steering getting in the Tacoma. (probably would happen with the other mini trucks as well) Visibility is good. The rear camera isn't bad but lacks the predictive outlines most of the other trucks are showing now.

I'm currently renting a F150 for a few days. It drives nice but the suspension (even on the 4x4) is a bit softer than I'd expect. It bounces more than my Buick. It seems more stable at speed than most of the mini trucks but it's super wide in the cockpit and visibility suffers. Even with large mirrors and the wide angle mirror insets it seems harder to check all the possible blind spots. (Still better than the currently designed sedans with super slanted A pillars and rear view mirrors mounted on the eyeline.) I am not certain but what the fuel economy on the F150 may be better than the Tacoma when driving like a bat. The full sized truck is just too big for the apartment and idiotic CA parking lots.

The Ridgeline drives nice but it looses a lot of value quick. I don't need a built in ice chest and it seems like a stupid place to put the spare tire in the under bed trunk that would require you to unload the truck to get at it. Having a hidden 'trunk' isn't a bad idea it's just moronic to put the spare tire under a lid that's covered by your cargo.
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Re: Small Trucks?

Post by GasGuzzler »

Import brands (not where they're built) have zero value in a town of 15K people outside the DFW bubble in Texas. The nearest import dealer is 30 minutes away but we have Chevy Ford GMC Dodge and Buick in town.

Markets differ.

Yes, 85K is low for a 2005. My 2007 GMC has 126K which is low. I worked on a 2018 2500 two weeks ago that had 178K miles. We have oilfield companies that run their trucks 24/7 and most residents commute to DFW so mileages are high here. Those residents that do not commute or drive a company vehicle might have an import...that is barely road worth and on its 5th owner. That in itself changes the value of anything trade wise...like Vettes - they're useless except for the most affluent. Same with mini-trucks - no point here.

There might be 13 Tacomas in the county. There may be 13 old body Rangers and S-10s in one neighborhood because they're cash cars - cheap to buy now. I'd buy a 2003 S-10 pick up at double the price of a 2004 Colorado with the same odometer and relative options.

Kinda miss the Blazer...

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Re: Small Trucks?

Post by Archer »

My folks have a S-10 from 1996 with less than 100K on it as well.
A bit small for what I'm after with the child jump seats behind the front seat.
That plus certain missing items like A/C and the factory antilock brakes are now normal brakes unless they want to put in an aftermarket kit and seats that have been worn out and 'repaired' to 'almost can't see where' by my father.

Current generation U.S. manufactures are still having stuff misassembled in Mexico the last I checked.
At the least, wiring harnesses and component parts.
One of my friends who designs electronics for a living was visiting a Mexico fabrication facility and said the shop foreman asked him 'Can't you design this stuff so they can put it together wrong and it will still work?'
Another former coworker who is a avionics/aerospace electrical engineer who got his start as a Navy Electrical-Nuc type and works for a jet manufacturer said they were trying to make wiring harnesses in Mexico but it wasn't working out.

The Ranger phased out in the U.S. in 2011 although they kept building them overseas. The old ones were pretty utilitarian. We had one when I worked at Fed-Ex for the engineer's use at the airport and it was pretty good. (scuttlebutt was chevy insulted Fred Smith when he was starting out and ALL the logo vehicles at Memphis at the time were Ford some 30 years later.)

I was under the impression that Chevy pretty much did the same with their small trucks but it appears they continued sales in the U.S. although the numbers were small until 2015. I looked them over when they did the facelift either 2014 or soon thereafter and was not too impressed.

U.S. Tacoma sales the past three years have run ~33% to 40% higher than the Chevy mini truck.
Word is that the Rangers are selling fast this year.
I suspect the Tacoma is due for at least an interior facelift and maybe reengineering the transmission for smoother gear changes and possibly better highway cruising.

Ford and GM sales of full sized pickup trucks each run about 7 to 8 times that of Toyota's full sized truck.

I was offered a F-150 earlier today for $7500 that has nearly 100K on it. Not sure what year it is or the general condition. The owner is a friend and I'm not sure how he keeps up his personal vehicles but this one is almost a spare at this point since he picked up a 250 or some such.
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Re: Small Trucks?

Post by GasGuzzler »

Quality issues with Mexican trucks are a figment of internet myth. They all have problems...a lazy American union worker ain't better than someone in a Mexican sweat shop.
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Re: Small Trucks?

Post by mr surveyor »

GasGuzzler wrote:Quality issues with Mexican trucks are a figment of internet myth. They all have problems...a lazy American union worker ain't better than someone in a Mexican sweat shop.

that's probably closer to the truth than most of us realize ... unfortunately


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Re: Small Trucks?

Post by Archer »

I won't disagree, and I've seen 'certified aircraft mechanics" (A&Ps) in the U.S. do some extraordinarily dumb things over the years but I know of several attempts to outsource to Mexico where quality was not recoverable, NONE of them automotive. (I've also seen some pure dee moronic examples of aircraft maintenance show up from the Middle East and China. I know of at least one attempt to put a major aircraft refit and maintenance facility in China but I don't know if it got beyond the paper stages. I personally find it astonishing that it was even contemplated given ITAR restrictions.)
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Re: Small Trucks?

Post by Archer »

So after renting the F150 for a week it is almost like driving the Buick LeSabra only twice as tall.
Going way to fast on the highway is just too darned easy. After a couple days of getting used to it you realize it will hold the road even though the CGs way too high and it's bouncing through the curves. I suspect it would be pretty easy to get it in a 'corner' where it could be a very bad day if you weren't paying attention.

Still to darned large for parking lots and people want to try and sneak up in your blind spots, of course the idiots want to do that regardless of what you are driving and the high belt line on most cars nowadays means they sure as heck have massive blind spots. And about twice the price too boot.
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Re: Small Trucks?

Post by Archer »

Now I'm considering a Ram 1500. Looks like for about $45K I could get about what a F-150 would run $58K.

Not sure about the brand or the full sized truck though...
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Re: Small Trucks?

Post by Archer »

And I think I'm back to the Tacoma.
A big truck is too much of a pain at the apartment complex etc.
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Re: Small Trucks?

Post by GSB4243 »

Plus for a really nice Tacoma, you'll still be $10K cheaper than the Ram. I have a 2017 Tundra. Despite the big 3 hype, I wouldn't trade mine for any of the the others - and for what it is worth, mine with the 5.7L/4wd/Crewmax/bedliner, etc. $42K.
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