Why get a conceal carry permit?

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Why get a conceal carry permit?

Post by Moon Tree »

Well I finally enrolled in a conceal carry class for this coming Saturday. I'm pretty excited about. I've been putting this off for 10 years or however long CCW has been available in KY. Open carry is legal in KY as is having handguns in your glove box. One of my biggest reasons for getting the permit is the political climate. Who knows what executive (unconstitutional) order our lame duck president will try to declare. Heaven forbid, Hillary gets in office. My second reason, is sometimes, like in the winter, open carry is difficult to accomplish while wearing a larger coat.

Back to the topic: I read recently in one of the gun magazines that something like 80% of aggressive behavior is thwarted by the presentation of a firearm. From personal experience of open carry and stories of friends and acquaintances, I believe this to be true. So, my question is why conceal your weapon when it could deter conflict before it even arises?
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Re: Why get a conceal carry permit?

Post by TinMan »

I was told last week about a couple of little old ladies that went to the LTC class for the sole purpose of padding the statistics, both of them are 78 years old. On the 250 point course their scores were 235/215 respectively. Neither are going to carry in public, they just wanted to get some training and keep the guns for home defense should the need arise, but they wanted to send a message to Barry by adding two more tic marks to the tally sheet down in Austin.............yeah, welcome to Texas! +guns +guns
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Re: Why get a conceal carry permit?

Post by GasGuzzler »

Moon Tree wrote: Who knows what executive (unconstitutional) order our lame duck president will try to declare.
This is precisely why many don't get a CCL.
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Re: Why get a conceal carry permit?

Post by Model 52 »

A few (mostly) unconnected thoughts.

1. My mother called me last year, and asked what kind of handgun she should get as she had just gotten her concealed carry permit. Given that she still lives in SD (the state with the highest pre capita rate of concealed carry permits) and that SD has no training requirement for the basic permit ($10 fee and takes about 3 days to get it approved), I advised her to get with her brother and get some training first, but I recommended a steel framed S&W Model 36 or Model 60 with a Hogue mono block grip and standard pressure 158 gr .38 Special ammo. Simple to operate, won't beat her up and is pleasant enough to shoot that she'll get some practice with it.

2. I agree that the vast majority of potentially deadly encounters that involved concealed carry permit holders are in fact resolved without firing a shot. But the instances where a gun is actually produced are only a small fraction of those incidents. In general, citizens who are armed have better situational awareness, and both notice potential assailants and establish eye contact with them when they are still at a significant distance away. Most muggers, rapists, etc won't engage a target that sees them first - they'll choose an easier target. Most successful criminals are also pretty good at reading people and while they won't know exactly why the potential target is more confident/less afraid/more assertive they'll follow their instincts and choose an easier victim. Having the firearm concealed doesn't change that awareness or the message you're sending out.

3. I almost got mugged once in Arlington VA, on my way from a cash machine to the AT&T store. I was in a hurry to get there before it closed at 9pm as my phone had died. I wasn't paying my normal level of attention, and took a wrong turn. I reversed course and came face to face with a mugger who'd obviously followed me from the cash machine making his final approach. Just my non-startled response, shift in body position the movement of one hand toward is knife hand, and the other hand toward my hip was all that it took to put him into full flight. The look on his face was classic as he just knew he was dead. I never had to say a word or even lift the shirt off my pistol.

4. I think open carry has some serious tactical flaws.
a) You single yourself out as a target. If someone is armed and intent on committing the crime, you're just guaranteeing you'll be shot at the outset.
b) Open carry may be legal in your state, but there are many businesses where open or concealed carry is prohibited. You can't just open carry your gun in this places. Movie theaters are good example. One of our local theaters posts no handguns, and while it's technically illegal to conceal carry there, most of the concealed carry permit holders I know carry there anyway. It's technically illegal, but the illegality of it won't dissuade a criminal from violating the sign. On the other hand concealed is concealed and if your hand gun is well concealed no one will ever know you have it on you, and the theater's customers will never be made to feel uncomfortable because someone is carrying gun. It's a personal decision, and some CCW permit holders will carry and others will not, but the point is that if they elect to carry and they are avoiding a harm to anyone else's right and keeping their firearm well concealed it's a non issue, but it leaves them armed in the event anything ever happens. I can respect that choice. People don't have that option with open carry.
c) Similarly, we all recall the well intended but incredibly stupid open carry demonstrations of a year or two ago. Pretty much every targeted business responded with the inevitable ban on firearms in that business as openly carried firearms make many people uncomfortable. This people then don;t shop in those businesses and it cost the businesses money. The saving grace is that some of those companies used very careful wording regarding open carry, and/or "requested" customers not carry firearms in their stores to stop the open carry demonstrations, rather than implementing an outright ban on both open and concealed firearms. Consequently, you'll still find me concealed carrying in Starbucks, Target, etc, but people can't open carry there anymore.
d) People who open carry get higher level of scrutiny from ME. Back home in rural SD, open carry was very common among farmers and ranchers as firearms were just every day tools. However here in eastern NC, when I see someone open carrying the first question to springs to mind is "why?" I have to wonder is the person can't get a concealed carry permit, whether he's got a maturity issue and is trying to act/look like an operator, or whether he's just a little dimmer than the average guy - tactically speaking. In any event, they get closely watched, they stay in my field of fire, and I'll happily let them go first in line at the local stab and grab.
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Re: Why get a conceal carry permit?

Post by Ranch Dog »

Model 52, you stated my thoughts precisely!

On the first of the year, Texas became an open carry State. It's not constitutional carry, you need to be licensed. The fallout was immediate in my area. The process of moving to open carry educated the public and businesses as to methods to legally prohibit the carry. Before, it was quite typical to see a business that did not want handguns post a notice to that effect and usually they didn't know enough about the letter of the law to post the correct verbiage which legally allowed the license holder to conceal carry right past it. Now, because of the controversy the open carry process brought, these businesses are well versed in the requirement and just purchase the legal limiting signing. Not only have the signs preventing open carry been posted but right next to it the conceal carry signs have gone up as well preventing any carry.

Go to another business? That's city folk talk. I live outside a small town that has less that 6,000 people. There isn't another business to go to within 35 miles.

I don't like the idea of an unknown individual driving on to my ranch open carry. I don't get many but if someone were to step out of the vehicle with a firearm visible; the front blade, through the ghost ring of my Mini-30 will be sitting on their chest. The first time that happens, I will post both legal limiting signs at my cattle guard. With that said, how do others feel about a unknown individual with a visible firearm ringing their doorbell?
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Re: Why get a conceal carry permit?

Post by Ohio3Wheels »

Ranch Dog wrote:Model 52, you stated my thoughts precisely!

On the first of the year, Texas became an open carry State. It's not constitutional carry, you need to be licensed. The fallout was immediate in my area. The process of moving to open carry educated the public and businesses as to methods to legally prohibit the carry. Before, it was quite typical to see a business that did not want handguns post a notice to that effect and usually they didn't know enough about the letter of the law to post the correct verbiage which legally allowed the license holder to conceal carry right past it. Now, because of the controversy the open carry process brought, these businesses are well versed in the requirement and just purchase the legal limiting signing. Not only have the signs preventing open carry been posted but right next to it the conceal carry signs have gone up as well preventing any carry.

Go to another business? That's city folk talk. I live outside a small town that has less that 6,000 people. There isn't another business to go to within 35 miles.

I don't like the idea of an unknown individual driving on to my ranch open carry. I don't get many but if someone were to step out of the vehicle with a firearm visible; the front blade, through the ghost ring of my Mini-30 will be sitting on their chest. The first time that happens, I will post both legal limiting signs at my cattle guard. With that said, how do others feel about a unknown individual with a visible firearm ringing their doorbell?
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Re: Why get a conceal carry permit?

Post by dvw86 »

So, my question is why conceal your weapon when it could deter conflict before it even arises?
The two times that I've needed a pistol for defending myself from a human, was just after I came out of a bank and I don't recommend open carry at a bank. ;)

Also,
Washington state (where I live) is a constitutional carry. Section 24 - Right to Bear Arms. " The right of the individual citizen to bear arms in defense of himself, or the state, shall not be impaired..."

However, concealed carry requires a permit and a background check. That means the only way to legally carry a pistol while you are waiting for the permit to come in the mail (up to 30 days), is to open carry. We live outside of any town and the closest one is only about 3,000 people. It's not too uncommon to see open carry in the little town, but you almost never see it in the bigger cities. The employees at my favorite LGS almost all open carry. I can guarantee that no one in their right mind would try to rob that place, so in some cases it makes sense.

I prefer to conceal carry, as Model 52 states, it's sometimes better if the bad guys don't know if you are armed. I will sometimes open carry, but it really depends on the location and situation. Personally I open carry at home, when out at the cabin (40 acres next to the national forest), and when hunting. It's really common to see people with firearms when I'm up at the cabin. It's a small community and there are a lot of 4 legged reasons to have a gun. I shot a charging bear last year as did a realtor the year before who was simply looking at a piece of property to list.
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Re: Why get a conceal carry permit?

Post by techiej »

Aside from personal preferences in WA state I can take home a handgun at the time of purchase with a permit vs a waiting period.

In addition, there are fewer potential 'problems' transporting firearms (I live on the WA-OR border) when you have the permits for both. For example, in OR without a permit you would need to leave the magazine unloaded even in your car.
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Re: Why get a conceal carry permit?

Post by dvw86 »

techiej wrote:Aside from personal preferences in WA state I can take home a handgun at the time of purchase with a permit vs a waiting period.

In addition, there are fewer potential 'problems' transporting firearms (I live on the WA-OR border) when you have the permits for both. For example, in OR without a permit you would need to leave the magazine unloaded even in your car.
Good points. In WA you also can not have a pistol loaded in your vehicle unless you have a permit.

So in WA the reasons for a permit are:

1. Get to take a pistol home at time of purchase.
2. Can have a pistol loaded in your vehicle.
3. Can have a pistol on your person with no one else knowing it.
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Re: Why get a conceal carry permit?

Post by GasGuzzler »

Ohio3Wheels wrote:
They'd best have a badge :) .

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