454 92 cluster flub with Braztec

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454 92 cluster flub with Braztec

Postby woden » 31 Jan 2017 13

Here is one to ponder. I purchased a new 454 casull blued 92 back in approximatley August 2016, shot it a few times and low and behold the cases split into two parts front and rear about halfway when normal 454 casull ammo was fired in it. (normal meaning Barnes 250 and Hornady 240 and 300 grains). The cases split in half about 1/3 of the time and some show just a case head seperation crack or fissure. I did shoot some Winchester 250 grain and no problem. Not good. Did some minor lookin, checked the chamber (it was smooth no cases sticking), but the lever did appear to not quite close completely as the bolt and lugs moved slightly forward and up at the end of the stroke. The splits are not length wise but around the case.

I throught dam, and sent the gun and spent brass back to Braztec in October. Braztec fiddled around and said it needed a new barrel and that they would get one as soon as feasible, but had no date for when the barrel would be available. After many calls, finally in December they said they have a barrel and it would be installed and the rifle shipped back.

I got the gun back last weekend. Took the gun out of the box and inspected it. The barrel is an older Rossi stamped barrel in reasonable condition, although it was not the same quality as the one that was on it.
Then I noticed the forearm screw was stainless not blued. The sights were at least approximately in the 12:00 position. Then I noticed that the magazine band screw at the front had the screw missing. Subseqently I figured out it was broken off and half remained in the hole. The gun was dinged up and the screws were partially buggered.

So I figure this is normal for Rossi/Braz tech, I can fix those things, lets see how it shoots. Take the gun out to shoot it and low and behold the cases are still splitting with three types of ammo. *@#$%^&***! Then to boot, I find the forearm loose in my hand with the stainless screw sticking out. The screw I found out was too short and would only get appoximately a half a thread into the hole on the opposite side. The wood hole in the forearm is now rounded out, either from my few shoots or from the asses test firings.

Braztec states they test fired it nine times with Winchester 250 grain ammo, and everything was hunky. Well from reading and my experiance Winchester 250 grain ammo is mild to mid at best (more like a ruger level 45 lc). What kind of idot would test fire with sub standard (lite) ammo?

All I can say is what a bunch of a-holes. I am done with them. Add one more to the list.

My guess is they screwed in the new barrel and left it, never really tried to check headspace in any reasonable manner. Also the ejector is the new style with the fingers or wings that currently on most models extend into recesses in the barrel. They did not cut any new recesses into the barrel,so now I suspect maybe this is part of the problem as you can see where the fingers or wings are peening against the barrel, this may be keeping the bolt from closing all the way.

Regardless I will take apart and try to decypher this my self. No way in hell would I send this back for round two. My suspicion is the ejector is damaged, too high or pround, or maybe the fingers or wings are keeping the bolt from full closure, or maybe the bolt just wont close far enough regardless of the ejector and wings or fingers on it.

Any thoughts ?
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Re: 454 92 cluster flub with Braztec

Postby akuser47 » 31 Jan 2017 20

More than likely chamber is out of spec or headspace is way off obviously. There is a way to use masking tape to check headspace on certain cartridges. I am unable to look it up at this time, but maybe google masking tape head spacing.
I looked up on another forum
here is a break down proceed with caution

This is from another author not my skill or knowledge
take with a grain of salt.

"It's very ball-park, there's lots of variables to consider. Various actions have different closing pressures/leverage, and can crush the masking tape different amounts. Masking tape also isn't exactly a precision product either...

Then there's the variations in ammunition manufacture, not a lot of ammunition will mike as consistently as a well machined gauge set would.

That being said, tape headspace can give you a rough idea if a firearm is shootable or not.

Generaly, the "masking tape method" is an unfired round, (be careful, or remove firing pin etc.) 1 masking tape disk on the case head and the action closes is "GO", 2 masking tape disks on the case-head and the action closes is "FIELD", and 3 masking tape disks on the case head, and the action closes is "NO-GO"…

The real bummer though is that if you close on two tape disks, all you've really earned yourself is more checking. The amount of play in the "FIELD" category with the tape layers is too much to be sure. You don't know exactly where you stand until you try some real gauges.

My rule of thumb is that unless I can only close the action on "GO", or no tape at all, I need to do a proper check with gauges or a gunsmith. "

Here's my advice on top of this get some cerrasafe and do a chamber cast then you can measure the chamber and see if it is in spec. It's very low temp and fairly easy to do. Not to much cost either. I'm brainstorming


Keep us posted +corn
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Re: 454 92 cluster flub with Braztec

Postby Ranch Dog » 31 Jan 2017 22

And people wonder why I say I will part a gun out before I send it to Rossi?

Really sorry to hear this woden, just don't have any advice.
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Re: 454 92 cluster flub with Braztec

Postby woden » 01 Feb 2017 08

Thanks Akuser, I will try that. This is one of those situations, where I need to just go slow and investigate.
I may buy some gauges, as I am sure I can sell them to some other poor Rossi buyer down the road after I use them. It is weird as every casing does not split so I think the headspace is close to being ok. I did shoot some Ruger level 45s through it and they are fine, cases show no expansion lengthwise or horizontally. Even with full power 454 no pimers sticking out or flattening, etc.

I think maybe the ejector may be the culprit and the fact that no recesses were cut in the new barrel may be keeping the bolt from closing as far as it should. If this is the case, I will have to carefully file or dremel out two recesses and check things.

I did read somewhere that you may be able to change the head space by polishing a part of the bolt/action to allow it to close further. I may have to investigate that a bit more also. Currently I have not studied the action on a 92 enough to really understand all that is going on in it.

Like Ranch Dog says, I may end up parting this one out or saving the remaining pieces as a parts gun for my other 45 lc 92.

I really don't understand the buisness model for Braztech/Rossi. Sell realitively good quality guns, that could be great with a little extra work in the factory, and then screw as many of your good customers as possible with regard to repairs and parts. Very strange.
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Re: 454 92 cluster flub with Braztec

Postby akuser47 » 01 Feb 2017 19

It's a bad business model for sure. Look at how many different answers we get on C.S. phone calls for parts and service, and the C.S. that doesn't even know the parts for the guns they sell. It's why our forum here thrives at times with people needing help that Rossi won't or cannot give.
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Re: 454 92 cluster flub with Braztec

Postby woden » 14 Feb 2017 12

To add fuel to the fire, I called Braztech back and told them about the screws, the mistreatment of the gun, and the fact that it still does what it did when I sent it in. They essentially had no response. I told them the least they could do is send me some new screws. They agreed, and after a short agrument with the guy on the phone regarding the name of the front screw that goes in the barrel/mag band, I was assured I would get my screws in the mail. About a week later I received the screws. The one for the front band was the wrong one as I had explainded to the idiot technician on the phone and he would not listen to me (he sent one for a regular 92 not a 454). Then I went to install the forearm band screw, and approximately two turns in, the head of screw broke off ($%***%@*&$%#%@#$%@$# !). The screw was made of powder apparently or the powder was not heated properly, either way complete junk.

I am done with these idiots. If you buy a Rossi/Braztech 92 you would be wise to buy an extra just for parts.

Futhermore, I have investigated the gun, taken it appart and put it back toghether a few times and so far it appears that the only thing wrong with it is that the ejector spring is way to strong. When the spring is out of the gun, the gun will lock up completly with no movement at the end of the lever stroke. With the spring in, it will not lock up all the way, leaving a visible gap between the barrel face and bolt, and the bolt will close with additional lever tension, then spring back when released. I am not completely sure this is the only problem yet, but I suspect if I shoot it without the spring in it and the brass is ok, I have found my problem or at least part of it.
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Re: 454 92 cluster flub with Braztec

Postby Ranch Dog » 14 Feb 2017 13

Yeap, Rossi has worn me out just reading about it.
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Re: 454 92 cluster flub with Braztec

Postby Archer » 15 Feb 2017 13

Really stinks that they can't get their act together.

Also a pity not to figure out the simple fix before it got sent off to the factory.
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Re: 454 92 cluster flub with Braztec

Postby woden » 22 Feb 2017 09

Well the saga continues. I shot the gun without the ejector sping in it and it still breaks the Hornady 300 grain xtp mag factory load cases in half, however, some of the other loads that are true 454 loads are holding up ok.
I put a new ejector spring in and we will see how that works. Also, now the gun will not feed anything from the magazine and would not when returned from Braztec. The bullets are haning up on the cartridge guide on the opposite side of the loading gate, just before the cut outs or channels. Carrier seems to work fine maybe a little sticky - need to polish the sides a bit as I can see where they are rubbing- but it is working.

Boy, by time I get this thing working I will have an intimate knowledge of these 92's and will not be afraid to tackle any problem with them.
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Re: 454 92 cluster flub with Braztec

Postby Ranch Dog » 22 Feb 2017 15

Yeah, you are definitely attending the school of "hard knocks"!
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