Red Dot Sights For The Old Gray Mare

[Mrlucky353]

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Many long years ago, it was a joy to use open sights.

My 22 rifle had a golden globe atop the front sight, and after shooting thousands of rounds
of CCI CB caps in the 25 to 60 yard range, holdover calculations became second nature.

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The rifle was zeroed at 35 yards, and when taking shots longer than that,
the golden front sight became like an earthen globe with degrees of latitude showing.

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Learning from every shot how to estimate drop and distance, experience taught
when to use a half or a quarter or a third of a globe holdover. With time, the force
would be with you and holdover calculations could be fine tuned even further.

But that was many long years ago.

Now, using a good scope with an eyepiece that (thank goodness) can be adjusted for focus is the norm.
But if an angry boar were charging at closer range, tracking a moving target in a scope
would be a challenge. Whereas open sights might allow quicker target acquisition.

Does anyone have experience they can share regarding whether red dot optics offer an acceptable compromise? Below is a video showing an experienced shooter using a red dot on a mini-14 at close range.
His target acquisition seems quick enough with a good cheek weld. (Shooting starts at minute 5:40).

[BBvideo 560,340][/BBvideo]

Are red dot scopes accurate?
What is the distance at which accuracy falls off with the red dot?
And what accuracy would you expect for longer shots in the 100,150 or 200 yard ranges?

Thanks.

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[akuser47]

Ok I can help some on red dots
First depending on caliber and distance picking your red dot size or moa can be very important as o your intended purpose like small caliber like .22 rimfire and even .17hmr 3moa or smaller in most cases. ultradot matchdot sights are a very big player in 22 competions especially on pistols but work very well on rifles as well especially pistol caliber. Now brand is another issue I will state this bushnel trs25 is cheapest I'd go it is tuff and functional small and compact has a few different base options to get it set up close to your needs for less than 90 bucks. Now if shooting different ranges and wanting a graduated or bdc styled red dot there are option in the higher price bracket but I see no need as you can learn holdovers as in 6 oclock holds to range possibly 150 yards and 12 oclock as your 100 yard zero all depending on load and caliber. I just recently got a vortex sparc 2 its very well made and comes with all you need but 200 bucks, I also have a new as of last Christmas HHS combo by eotech that has the 3 dots system so I can shoot out to range with my heavy loads on it. The bushnell trs 25 could do all any of this will do and many use it to do it. Buying chea is hard as the dit can blurry and because of perception issues on targeting. As you are constantly trying to focus the dot that will never be in focus. Red dots unless you get a magnifies are usually 1x so you don't see farther you just get a dot you can see and hit with keeping both eyes open. Situational awareness which is key in certain conditions of hunting. It takes time to learn to shot both eyes open on red dot and some cannot. I like it as I can see and react much better when I used to shot in 3 gun comp with friends not affiliated competitions. Just hillbillies that made up stuff in safe areas far away from noisy neighbers.
In short if you buy the right red dot there is no limitation to what you can do with it.
Just snapped this pic the sparc 2 is on the evo s1 the eotech hhs combo has a 3 x magnifier on my DDM4V5 that helps it and me reach out further. I layed my r92 .357 magnum 20" barrel over them so you could get a size idea in comparison the bushnell trs25 is smaller than the vortex sparc. and cheaper as well.

[Mrlucky353]

Thanks AK.


Steve

[akuser47]

If your red dot you have doesn't mess with your focus I'd suggest mounting it up to test and see if your eyes like red dots. If you like that one and it doesn't cause focus distraction on target than getting a better one is a no brainer if you like a sharper dot. I have B.E.C. red dot on my hipoint 995 its a 20 dollar dot but works for it to 100 yards as 9mm carbine. Also line of sight on dots is awesome no matter how you hold the gun if dot is on target it is going to hit target if sighted in properly for me it is my favorite other than a 50mm objective long range scope. That just wont work when those scopes are longer than some guns I use these days lol

[Jaybm]

I have the Vortex SPARC 2 on my 16 in. .357 and absolutely love it.


I usually set up at 75 yards and it's on in a few rounds, last week after not being
out for awhile it did take six rounds to find the X ring. For grins I did try a few
rounds at 100 yards and the drop was roughly six inches from poa.

I'm left eye dominate so good groups using my right eye is saying something for
this Red Dot. Just can't get the hang of both eyes open. Lifetime no questions
asked warranty is a plus but I've never heard of anyone needing it.

Just my $0.02 ... Jim

[Mrlucky353]

Decided to give a red dot (actually a green dot) a try on a small scale,
just sticking my toe in so to speak.

Put an El Cheapo CenterPoint on a Ruger 10/22

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You guys were right that using a dot optic requires a new skill set,
and it was surprising how much fun it is!

Cabella's claims the dot is 3 MOA, but to my eyes it looks like it's 12 MOA.
When shooting a 6 inch round black target at 50 yards,
the size of the dot matched the size of the target.

But for a newbie just learning, the larger dot is helpful and easier to see.

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You guys were also right that it's goint to take practice to learn to shoot with both eyes open.
The group size with one eye closed was acceptable.
But with both eyes open, the dot seemed to fade a good deal, with predictable results.

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Today was also a good reminder that shooting a 22 semi-auto rifle is just plain fun!

[Jaybm]

dog gone it Mrlucky ... now you went and done it !!!

Next range trip I'll have to slip the ole marlin .22 in the truck.
It's scoped and hasn't been shot in years and I've managed to
stock pile some .22lr ammo.

Similar to your results with that both eyes open technique
with my red dot so why bother ???

Have you tried adjusting the brightness ? The size of the dot
appears to increase / decrease with a change in brightness
on the Vortex.

Got to move some leaves before I can hit the range again ... Jim

[GasGuzzler]

Bought a demo model NCStar in the box cheap off eBay just for grins. It's still mounted if that tells you anything. It's not super accurate but steel plates shot rapidly are very fun.



Standing free hand 15 yds. 8" target shot quick as I could and still see what I was doing.

[Ohio3Wheels]

My experience with red dots has been from good to miserable. First the good a BSA on my 10-22 works great and stay on target. The bad an Osprey on my 45-70 Wizard. Wizard killed the first one with 4 or 5 shots, Wizard killed the replacement and bounced it off my head when the site and mount separated under recoil. I haven't even bothered to replace it.

If I were going to go out and buy a red dot for anything but the Wizard I'd probably consider the Bushnel if for no other reason in that they were honest with me when I inquired about using one on the Wizard and they advised against it.

Right now for the Wizard I'm looking at Primary Arms. Their CS guy I corresponded with tells me their dots are test to 50 BMG. So I figure it might survive the Wizard.

Off to the gun show.

Make smoke,

[NavyDoc76-80]

When i was looking for a red dot solution, i ended up putting this (see link) MeProLight on my 16" 44 rem mag. It is mounted on a Pearson scope mount. It does take some getting use to but once i zeroed it in per instructions the results were good. The odd thing for me was how it gave the impression the dot was not where it should be for poa, but once i got use to it and excepted that the scope and or the red dot was infact giving me poa i was ok. This one is a little pricey but i looked at it like a tool, i dont like buying cheap tools, but then again, i dont have any experience with the less expensive brands as this was my first. She also stayed true under recoil, but i expected that given its military spec build.

http://www.midwayusa.com/product/392164 ... -dot-matte