Bullet drop

Maximizing the performance of your Rossi firearm.
DennisH
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Re: Bullet drop

Post by DennisH »

Just an update.The IMR4227 really makes the rifle dirty. Another thing I noticed is on the casing where with regular loads you see black soot from blow back. Now I'm seeing streaks of lead. The pressure must be high enough that a little lead is blowing back before the case expands and seals the chamber.
I got some more new brass and was going to try the Titegroup at 9 gns. I have a little time to try it out. Titegroup burns much cleaner of the 2.
What kind of computer program is there that tells you pressure and velocity?
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Re: Bullet drop

Post by DennisH »

I have been able now to hit a 12 inch circle at 200 yards by aiming about 2ft high. I dont know how much power it has at that distance but it goes thru a 1 inch pine board with no trouble.
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Re: Bullet drop

Post by Ranch Dog »

Ranch Dog wrote:With the data you provided, QuickLoad estimates that the 8-grains of TiteGroup produces 1105 FPS and the 18 grains of IMR4227 1155 FPS.
Surprised I didn't included the pressures generated? Anyway, the TiteGroup load produces the most pressure at 27.2 KPSI and IMR4227, the least, at 16.2 KPSI. So that means that the most likely to produce leading from over pressure is the TiteGroup.
DennisH wrote:The IMR4227 really makes the rifle dirty. Another thing I noticed is on the casing where with regular loads you see black soot from blow back. Now I'm seeing streaks of lead. The pressure must be high enough that a little lead is blowing back before the case expands and seals the chamber.
Sometimes you can see leading when there isn't enough pressure behind the bullet especially with a plain base bullet. The bullet needs a certain amount of pressure to obturate to the bore. Your comments about the blow blacks stuff; lead, soot and stains on the case, supports this. Missouri Bullet Company indicates that their 452300M bullet has a BHN of 18 which is very high for a plain base bullet intended for cowboy silhouette, so complete obituration is achieved at approximately 25.6 KPSI. That is probably why the TiteGroup shoots so good and the IMR4227 doesn't.

What I would suggest is that you try increasing the IMR4227 load up to a maximum of 21.4-grains. At that point the case compression will be sitting at 105% which helps both combustion and accuracy. Any higher level of compression makes it near impossible to seat the bullet and get it crimped without the OAL varying between the individual cartridges. Because of the lead alloy and lube, the powder compression caused the bullet to slide out.

The 21.4-grain load will produce 1430 FPS and generate 26.2 KPSI. Work up to the load in several increments.
DennisH wrote:I got some more new brass and was going to try the Titegroup at 9 gns. I have a little time to try it out. Titegroup burns much cleaner of the 2.
That is something I would not do. Pistol powders are volatile and that 9 grain load will from 27.2 KPSI to 33.4 KPSI. This would probably also put you at the point that the 18 BHN plain base bullet would not survive.

The TiteGroup does burn cleaner because it is volitile. 100% of it is burning before the bullet leaves the barrel. Only 68% of the IMR4227 18.0-grain load burns. The 21.4-grain load will improve it to about 77%.
DennisH wrote:What kind of computer program is there that tells you pressure and velocity?
The only one I know of is QuickLoad.

As always, use of the information is at your own risk!
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Re: Bullet drop

Post by DennisH »

I wondered if the bullets were too hard, I noticed on bullets recovered the base still seemed flat. They are 18 BHN. 9grain of Titegroup was the max load in my Lee reloading book.
I'm starting to get better at judging distance and drop , and shot placement is most important in hunting. And some luck .
I did read in the Lee book about matching pressure to bullet hardness. I should reread my books to get a better understanding how these things all work together.There are just so many different bullets and powders I wanted to just use what I had . But I understand what you are saying.I have only been reloading for a year now.
It started from watching The Rifleman reruns last year when it came on at supper time and I just had to have a rifle like his.
Thank you much.My normal target loads are just 6 grain of Titegroup . I built a bullet stop so I can recover just about all my shots.
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Re: Bullet drop

Post by jdb »

DennisH wrote:I wondered if the bullets were too hard...

....I built a bullet stop so I can recover just about all my shots.
Just a quick reminder Dennis. Don't miss what I think Ranch's point is. If your intent is velocity, a lead bullet can not be too hard. The powder charge can only be too light.

It's not like 18 on the Brinell scale is really that hard. Pure lead is about 5-6 HB, and copper is in the range of 35. So while that 18 is pretty hard for an off the shelf cast bullet, it's kind of middle of the road compared to the full range of bullets we can buy and load.

I actually have some home cast that tested right at 25 HB (IF my buddy had the tester calibrated right LOL), which is getting near the top of what I want to do with the zinc alloy I had access to. And trust me when I tell ya that the high melting point of zinc will KILL molds in a heart beat! ;~)

Of course, I cast those specifically for loading hot +P 38s and 357 magnum type loads. So I don't do slow with them. ;~)

Oh, good move with the bullet catcher. I take it you intend to or have started saving the lead and casting your own? If so...make sure to pick Ranch's brain FIRST about the molds for your use. I'm pretty new here, but it's obvious that guy has a TON of experience and knowledge about casting bullets!

And you've probably already thought of it, but I will offer this suggestion just in case. If you are going to and don't have access to or intend to buy lead from a supplier, and are just collecting spent bullets, old wheel weights from all the tire shops around and that sort of thing, try to avoid doing small batches. Wait till ya have several, as in several hundred or even more before you melt it all together.

The reason is that not all wheel weights are created equal. There are all KINDS of alloys in those things, inCLUDING some stuff you really don't want to be shoving out the end of your barrel. Of course, as long as you keep your melting pot just barely above the melting point of lead, MOST of that stuff will skim off the top as impurities. But then you end up with pretty pure lead.

Then there's the problem with small batches that is just what you are experiencing right now. You could end up with rounds that are too hard or soft for what you want to do with them. I mean, you can do small batches to load up and plink or go all Chuck Connors with, but if your hunt depends on it or you get into competitive shooting, you'll want a consistent alloy.

Anyway, just something that came to mind to keep in mind. ;~)
"As to the species of exercise, I advise the gun. While this gives moderate exercise to the body, it gives boldness, enterprise, and independence to the mind." Thomas Jefferson
DennisH
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Re: Bullet drop

Post by DennisH »

I got it now. Increase velocity to match hardness to get the just right combination. If the powder gives too high of pressure use a different powder to give you more velocity with less pressure.
I'm just saving the lead for now. By the time I get everything I need I will have a small fortune in equipment. .It started as just a rifle and a couple boxes of ammo.
Right now I'm just am making a deer hunting load that would be good to 100 yards.
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Re: Bullet drop

Post by DennisH »

This is with 8.5 gn of titegroup with a 250 and 300 gn bullet. Next I'll make a couple with the IMR4227 at 21.4 gn and see. For the 95 yards I aimed at the top of circle. Paper plates are cheaper +guns then targets.But time is running out.
I wasn't even sure about bear since they are about 30 miles from here on the Penn. boarder but this was taken just a mile from my place. I will use the 300 gn bullet just in case!
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Re: Bullet drop

Post by Ranch Dog »

That's some pretty good shooting with them irons at that distance.
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Re: Bullet drop

Post by akuser47 »

Well done
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Re: Bullet drop

Post by DennisH »

Thanks I've been trying all kinds of sights and scope till I got the tang sight. For my vision it works good. And a lot of practice.
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