Project: Baby Big Bore

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Re: Project: Baby Big Bore

Post by GasGuzzler »

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Re: Project: Baby Big Bore

Post by Moon Tree »

Ohio3Wheels wrote:I will check when I get home. The bullet is the Lee 300 grain 45. It goes about 325 I my alloy lubed and gas checked. In the Black Hawks 19 grains is all the hand wanted and that was good because it was accurat. In the '92 it's in the general vicinity of 23 grains I'm still working it a bit.
Ohio, this is the exact loads I use for m BH and 92. I have shot 23 grains of H-110 through my BH, but 3 shots were enough for me. 19 grains are comfortable through the BH and at my limited abilities of 25 yards with a handgun. I haven't done penetrations with that load, but I bet at 1000 fps that 300 grain bullet will shoot through most anything in the lower 48. As for accuracy, it shoots better than I do. Kneeling, resting one elbow on my knee I get sub-2 inch groups out of my 5 1/2 inch barrel BH.

With the 23 grains of H-110 I get sub-1 inch groups from my 92. I have done penetration test with this rifle/load combo. It shoots THROUGH 6 feed bags pack tightly with wet sawdust. That's over 78" of penetration! I feel it will shoot through anything in North America. This load will be my second round/backup round in my Rossi this fall when I go bear hunting. My first round will be a 300 XTP for the expansion and more tissue damage. But if the bruin isn't lying flat after the first shot, I'll be sending Lee 300 grain gas checks into his vitals. Fortunately, through my rifle, both loads print exactly the same on paper.
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Re: Project: Baby Big Bore

Post by GRV01 »

this is turning out to be a great thread folks, appreciate all the input. As a bit of an update, wifey decided that she doesn't want a Circuit Judge afterall which makes me feel about the same as my avatar over there. She feels that she doesn't really need a 'big bore' especially if im handloading hot 357 rounds. Unperturbed Im still going to go with the 45LC matched with a Judge as a sidearm. Who knows, shell probably reconsider getting a CJ at a later date

. . .
Moon Tree wrote:
Ohio3Wheels wrote:I will check when I get home. The bullet is the Lee 300 grain 45. It goes about 325 I my alloy lubed and gas checked. In the Black Hawks 19 grains is all the hand wanted and that was good because it was accurat. In the '92 it's in the general vicinity of 23 grains I'm still working it a bit.
Ohio, this is the exact loads I use for m BH and 92. I have shot 23 grains of H-110 through my BH, but 3 shots were enough for me. 19 grains are comfortable through the BH and at my limited abilities of 25 yards with a handgun. I haven't done penetrations with that load, but I bet at 1000 fps that 300 grain bullet will shoot through most anything in the lower 48. As for accuracy, it shoots better than I do. Kneeling, resting one elbow on my knee I get sub-2 inch groups out of my 5 1/2 inch barrel BH.

With the 23 grains of H-110 I get sub-1 inch groups from my 92. I have done penetration test with this rifle/load combo. It shoots THROUGH 6 feed bags pack tightly with wet sawdust. That's over 78" of penetration! I feel it will shoot through anything in North America. This load will be my second round/backup round in my Rossi this fall when I go bear hunting. My first round will be a 300 XTP for the expansion and more tissue damage. But if the bruin isn't lying flat after the first shot, I'll be sending Lee 300 grain gas checks into his vitals. Fortunately, through my rifle, both loads print exactly the same on paper.
Interesting, you chose to gas check that cast bullet even with muzzle velocity of well below 1200 (which I understand is about the limit for normal-for-caliber weight cast bullets without gaschecks to prevent leading), so two questions: 1) what made you opt for gas checks? 2) think I could get away with no gas checks in that same loadout?

Bonus semi-related questions
In Modern Reloading, Chapter 7, page 78 Mister Lee wrote, "A safe rule to follow is...a lighter bullet may be substituted [in a load] which will result in a higher velocity and lower pressure." Now, looking at load data in the same source on page 270 under 45 COLT (RUGER & T/C ONLY) we see 325gr Lead Bullet using 21gr of H110, or 20gr of H4227 with pressures topping out at max loads as 27400 and 28000 CUP respectively.

Bonus Question #1A) regarding Mister Lee's assertion quoted above, can I safely use that published data for the 325gr Lead bullet but with a 300gr lead bullet, all things being equal?
#1B) I now know that H110 is sensitive to fill volume, so how would switching to a slightly lighter bullet (325gr vs 300gr) affect the rounds performance? Would I have to add a few grains to account for slightly more case volume?

Further, we see on page 266 and 267 under 45 COLT load data for 250gr XTP and 260gr Jacketed Bullet

Bonus Question #2A) I know we're not supposed to substitute load data for bullets of the same weight but different type (eg jacketed to cast) but I don't understand why?
#2B) Specifically the 45 Colt data in the more robust 92 action, could I not safely use a 260gr Jacketed load for a 250gr or 255gr lead cast bullet?
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Re: Project: Baby Big Bore

Post by GasGuzzler »

The simple gas check answer is because it's a GC mold. You don't want to run GC bullets with no check. Also leading is more of a function of pressure than velocity....some say. Cast and jacketed have different pressure and velocity because of friction and sealing. That doesn't mean no load can be safe with either bullet but it does mean you can't assume any is.
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Re: Project: Baby Big Bore

Post by Ohio3Wheels »

Pretty much what Gas said. I've shot gc designs with out checks but i usually have to scrub lead out :( and I'm not fond of that. If you can find pressure data on a lead and a jacketed bullet with the same powder charge you'll no doubt find that jacketed bullet generates more pressure. I will on occasion use a starting load for a jacketed bullet to work up a load for a similar weight and shape cast bullet when no data is available. Shape enters the equation because length of the bearing surface (contact with the bore walls) has an effect on pressure. There's a whole lot of stuff going on between ignition and departure from the muzzle.

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Re: Project: Baby Big Bore

Post by Moon Tree »

To address the why's of my choice for using gas check bullet-- My load through the 20" barrel Rossi is averaging 1566 fps. So I'm shooting above the standard 1200 fps considered to be the max volume for lead bullets to prevent leading. I agree there are a lot more going that could create leading issues other than volume alone. But, the 1200 fps is simple yard stick.
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Re: Project: Baby Big Bore

Post by Missionary »

Greetings
Gonna have to get a jug of Little Gun before we head north again. Sounds like it is well worth having about. But 110 and 296 sure have been well used in our 45 Rossi's.
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Way down south in Arequipa, Peru till June 2020.
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Re: Project: Baby Big Bore

Post by GRV01 »

"I'm what you call wishy-washy. Then again, maybe not."

so Change 3, after a trip to GA to the inlaws and shooting my FIL's arsenal of big bore pistols and not enjoying it overmuch and watching some hunting shows (we're really liking MeatEater on Netflix) im leaning more and more to the third option mentioned earlier in the thread: 45-70 Rio Grande with 357 pistol (that im already reloading for) on my hip

im thinking keeping only 3 powders for the two of them, maybe Trail Boss plinking for both, HS6 for warmer 357, and Varget for faster 4570 -or- HP38 for plinking 357, HS6 for warmer 357 and to plink in the 4570, and keeping Varget on the high end for the rifle? Who knows.

in any case here in the coming months as Summer draws down when Rossi is supposed to have Rios shipped out im picking one up in 45-70 for better or worse!
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Rossi's Owned: M92 .357 20"(Owned by Wifey: M92 .357 16")
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Re: Project: Baby Big Bore

Post by Ranch Dog »

In that you are mentioning Hodgdon powders I would think H335, H322, or Benchmark; in that order. Varget is going to cost you 100 to 150 FPS with any bullet in the range offered for the 45-70 Govt.

The 357 Mag needs a revolver powder vs. a pistol powder. Hands down, Lil'Gun trumps them all.

Trail Boss is a great choice for a "plinker" in either.
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