Developing/Choosing a Hunting Bullet for a Win 30-30

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Re: Developing/Choosing a Hunting Bullet for a Win 30-30

Post by Ranch Dog »

klr wrote:Alright, I'll see what the mold guy has to say about dropping a bullet to this spec. I won't take any more of your time, but again, I really appreciate the time you've spent with me on this. I've really learned a lot.
Thanks!
The time isn't a problem, just kind of pointing out that you can over worry this and never get it cut. I would have to go back and check but I think that about 15% to 20% of the "first cuts" I decided to have them recut with small changes. The rate was worse before I started using the TMT software. I'm a bit over the top in this regard and want it right.
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Re: Developing/Choosing a Hunting Bullet for a Win 30-30

Post by Zippidydoodah »

Almost need to run Clymer tap in to finish cut the leade properly. Could it be done with the barrel in the receiver?
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Re: Developing/Choosing a Hunting Bullet for a Win 30-30

Post by Ranch Dog »

Zippidydoodah wrote:Almost need to run Clymer tap in to finish cut the leade properly. Could it be done with the barrel in the receiver?
That has been in the back of my mind as well Zippidy and I'm glad you went ahead and mentioned it.

Here is klr's chamber…
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The SAAMI cut chamber…
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Comparing the two drawings, klr's:
  • chamber is .012" too long,
  • step is .004" too long,
  • and missing the .015" step leade.
All totaled, klr's chamber is .001" too long. In fact, the chamber is .000X too long, all the reflected measurements would need to be carried out to .000X" as the chamber length plus throat lengths of both drawings equal the sum of 2.140". With the features in klr's chamber, I don't think that a floating pilot chamber reamer is going to meet any resistance.

I really buggered up a 444 Marlin under similar circumstances. I hit the chamber length and hadn't reamed anything so I though I was off on my measurements. I went that silly little .001" more and ruined the chamber. At every shot the primers punched out .001". I was really thinking about suggesting this until I "walked" the text through the measurements in this reply.

What I suspect has happened to this chamber is that it was cut with worn tooling and the guy cutting it kept going until some type of "go" gauge seated. I suspect there are a lot of other rifles out there cut the same until somebody actually measured the reamer. It is also weird how such small changes effect things.
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Re: Developing/Choosing a Hunting Bullet for a Win 30-30

Post by klr »

You guys are right about the reamer. Tom at Accurate Molds told me that the abrupt start to my rifling is going to play havoc on cast bullets and also recommended I take care of it with a reamer. I researched for hours last night and came to the conclusion that I need a throat reamer. PTG makes one to use by hand.

http://www.midwayusa.com/product/712693 ... uctFinding

Seems like a lot of lever guns have the same problem and this is the best fix.

A couple of interesting websites:
http://www.mountainmolds.com/helpRifle.htm
http://riflemansjournal.blogspot.com/20 ... eamer.html

So with a throating reamer I should be able to take it slow and leave my current chamber dimensions alone.
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Re: Developing/Choosing a Hunting Bullet for a Win 30-30

Post by Ranch Dog »

You can rent all kinds of reamers here: Reamer Rentals 30 caliber throating reamer. You will need to rent a T-handle as well. This is a simple throat reamer and not the advanced tool that you referenced on Midway. Both are made by Pacific Tool but I haven't found an Uni-Throater for rent.

You will need to add the .015" leade. The question to ask before you buy or rent is what degree is the tool cutting. The 30-30 Win calls for a 15° leade. This is going to increase your chamber length by the .015" so the bullet design work would need to start again.

The Uni-Throater has lock nuts that are marked in .005" increments but I would also question whether you could fit the tool through the M94's stripped receiver as it is bulky. The simpler tool might be the best bet for not removing the barrel and you just control the depth on your own.
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Re: Developing/Choosing a Hunting Bullet for a Win 30-30

Post by klr »

Thanks for the heads-up. From looking at this stuff last night I think most of the throating reamers use 1.5 degrees.

Manson does custom reamers for less than the PTG Uni. Maybe I'll go that route.

Time for more research.
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Re: Developing/Choosing a Hunting Bullet for a Win 30-30

Post by Ranch Dog »

klr wrote:Thanks for the heads-up. From looking at this stuff last night I think most of the throating reamers use 1.5 degrees.

Manson does custom reamers for less than the PTG Uni. Maybe I'll go that route.

Time for more research.
That is what I remember the more we talk about this. Throating reamers are 1.5°. What that would do is ease into the cut, nothing dramatic, and fit what you have to fit. The trouble is you don't have something to fit until you have a bullet you cast mounted on a case.

It will be tomorrow morning but let me play with a 1.5ˆ leade in the drawing software just to see what it does and what effect length has on it.
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Re: Developing/Choosing a Hunting Bullet for a Win 30-30

Post by klr »

Ranch Dog wrote: The trouble is you don't have something to fit until you have a bullet you cast mounted on a case.
My son has the NOE copy of your SC311-165 bullet. This is the bullet I initially tried but found it engraved heavily on the nose.

His mold with COWW casts a .305 nose on the bullet, but the other dimensions match the drawing.

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Re: Developing/Choosing a Hunting Bullet for a Win 30-30

Post by Ranch Dog »

klr wrote:His mold with COWW casts a .305 nose on the bullet, but the other dimensions match the drawing.
If he would add about 2% tin to his alloy, the you would probably see better definition of the bore rider. Simple WW is not pliable enough to conform to the small, immediate detailed changes in shape. I consider the tin a must for the definition of the Micro-Bands.

Like klr's M94-AE, I'm having a similar short chamber problem with my Ruger Mini-30 5854. With all the 7.62x39 shooting I've done, it simply was shoved aside. I had a bit of down time so I tore into it this weekend. Ruger did good, SAAMI spec, up until they started into the step.

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I definitely need a chamber reamer over a throating reamer. The hassle here is that the barrel must be removed.
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Re: Developing/Choosing a Hunting Bullet for a Win 30-30

Post by klr »

I wonder why these manufacturers cut the chambers like this?

It's been years since I had a Mini 14. How is the barrel held in place?

I wonder if you could get/make a pull through style reamer to work?
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