RD cast bullet for the 308 Win?

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wquiles
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RD cast bullet for the 308 Win?

Post by wquiles »

I got incoming a Savage 10 P-SR, which is a 308 cal, 18" barrel, threaded barrel, acu-trigger, using the detachable magazines.

I plan to only shoot cast bullets: initially paper shooting at 100 yards, and future hog hunting at no more than 200 yards. I want to cast my own, and I would like to use the Ranch Dog 30-30 designed bullets, of which there are two versions:

The original 30-30 RD bullet:
http://noebulletmolds.com/NV/product_in ... cts_id=367

and the updated 30-30 RD bullet:
http://noebulletmolds.com/NV/product_in ... ts_id=1368

For those of you with knowledge/experience with the Savage 308 barrels, which one of those two would likely fit/work best with my incoming rifle?

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Re: RD cast bullet for the 308 Win?

Post by Ranch Dog »

Good morning Will. I took the liberty of changing the title of your topic a bit as it read like you where looking for a 300 Savage bullet.

The short answer is that neither bullet is a good bullet. I've always been a advocate that preaches that cast bullets are cartridge specific. Even though my two offerings are are 30 caliber bullets, they were designed for the 30-30 Win and won't make good 308 Win bullets. Claiming this, I took the time to put together some images to help explain why.

For starters, both of these bullets where designed to take advantage of the relatively long neck of the 30-30 Win and when the bullet is seated to match the throat of the 308 Win, the bullets extend quite a bit aft in the short neck of the 308 Win case.
308Win_TLC311165RF_A.jpg
308Win_TLC311165RF_B.jpg
You will notice that the bullet body on both designs are the same. The differences between the two are from the front band forward. These differences are to accommodate the differences between an original Marlin throat (the "A" bullet) and a SAAMI cut chamber (the "B" Bullet).

My experience has been that once you have the "tail feathers" of a cast bullet resting inside the case, aft of the neck, you will never see optimum cast bullet performance. Bullet erosion starts at the shot and the bullet will never be capable of matching jacketed bullet performance.

I did design a 308 Marlin Express bullet but I made a fatal error with it. Rather than letting the chamber dictate weight, I let the the buyers influence me into a "heavy" bullet. For some reason cast bullet shooters are always looking for a heavier than spec bullet and that in itself starts the compromise of a design.
308Win_311175RF.jpg
A 308 ME chamber has a little more slop than the 308 Win chamber (so the bullet can angle in from the carrier) but fit is about the same. With the 308 ME, the bullet rests in the chamber with the gas check extending aft of the case neck. With the 308 Win, the body has entered the case. All of this is from "cramming" too much lead into a given area, the only place it can go is aft. This should have probably been a 150-grain bullet at best. Despite giving the customers the heavy bullet they wanted, it did not shoot well and I had to field the questions as to why it shot badly... "well, I told you it would not work". I only had 50 of these cut because I new it would not work.
308Win_TLC310150RF.jpg
My new 300 Savage bullet, the TLC310-150-RF, is the best fit but even it would be a compromise because it is designed for a different cartridge. At least it forms a base of for a 308 Win bullet in that the gas check base and case neck base fit. Notice with all the bullets how much case trimming would be needed to match the case mouth to the crimp groove.

So, the bottom line is that there isn't a "Ranch Dog" bullet that is designed for the 308 Win.

Al Nelson of NOE has asked me to help organize some new designs and after the first of the year I will have a presence on his forum doing just that. There has been some interest in both my 7.62x39 and 300 Savage bullets so a 308 Win bullet is to far out there. Al can respond with the tooling real quick compared to Lee Precision. I will mention this next week and see where it goes.
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Re: RD cast bullet for the 308 Win?

Post by Ranch Dog »

Oh, just bought a 308 Win.
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Re: RD cast bullet for the 308 Win?

Post by wquiles »

WOW, thanks much Michael. You just saved me a lot of money and specially lots of time/frustration. Thanks much for taking the time to fully explain this topic.

I have QuickLoad as it saves me time in picking up loads to try, predicting fill ratios, target velocity, pressure, etc., and it looks like your software could also save time in showing what bullets would fit/not fit in a particular chamber. I have zero interest in bullet design (that is your forte!), but if you don't mind sharing - what software are you using to create these drawings?

Thanks again,
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Re: RD cast bullet for the 308 Win?

Post by Ranch Dog »

wquiles wrote:I have zero interest in bullet design (that is your forte!), but if you don't mind sharing - what software are you using to create these drawings?
I use TMT's Cast Bullet Design software. In that you mentioned QuickLoad, TMT's Precision Load Records will generate data files from your reloading records, all the components, to QL files. Makes working with the two software packages very nice!
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Re: RD cast bullet for the 308 Win?

Post by wquiles »

Thanks Michael. Once I save a little I will buy both of them, as it would be nice to tie my reloads to QuickLoad :)
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Re: RD cast bullet for the 308 Win?

Post by Ranch Dog »

Okay, come up with something that I've been thinking of for the 308 Win, a TLC310-180-RF. Will refine it over the course of the next couple of weeks once my rifle arrives.

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I'm thinking this 180-grain big game bullet will be one critter getter! It looks like 46.0-grains of BL-C(2) will give me 2535 FPS at 48.0 KPSI (what I've found to be the limit of my water quenched Lyman #2). That will do the trick. I have been using 50/50 wheel weights/linotype with my 454 Casull R92 at max pressure so I should be able to do the same with the 308 Win.
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Re: RD cast bullet for the 308 Win?

Post by wquiles »

That looks great!. I have never done a chamber casting (cerrosafe) but I am willing to do a cast of my Savage 308 rifle when it arrives if it would help you in this process.
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Re: RD cast bullet for the 308 Win?

Post by Ranch Dog »

wquiles wrote:That looks great!. I have never done a chamber casting (cerrosafe) but I am willing to do a cast of my Savage 308 rifle when it arrives if it would help you in this process.
I appreciate it but it is probably not needed. Modern bolt guns are very good at being cut to the SAAMI specs.
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Re: RD cast bullet for the 308 Win?

Post by klr »

Looks good. What do you use for lube?
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