RD cast bullet for the 308 Win?

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Re: RD cast bullet for the 308 Win?

Post by Ranch Dog »

klr wrote:Looks good. What do you use for lube?
Dipped in liquid Alox.
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Re: RD cast bullet for the 308 Win?

Post by klr »

Ranch Dog wrote:
klr wrote:Looks good. What do you use for lube?
Dipped in liquid Alox.
Sounds a lot easier than the pan lubing I'm doing. Do you use a special brand, or just the Lee stuff?
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Re: RD cast bullet for the 308 Win?

Post by Ranch Dog »

klr wrote:
Ranch Dog wrote:
klr wrote:Looks good. What do you use for lube?
Dipped in liquid Alox.
Sounds a lot easier than the pan lubing I'm doing. Do you use a special brand, or just the Lee stuff?
I buy it in bulk from White Label Lube.
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Re: RD cast bullet for the 308 Win?

Post by klr »

Thanks!
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Re: RD cast bullet for the 308 Win?

Post by wquiles »

Ranch Dog wrote:White Label Lube
Exactly the same one I buy/use :D
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Re: RD cast bullet for the 308 Win?

Post by Moon Tree »

OK, educate this newby a little. There looks to be a lot of bullet/lead in front of the crimp groove and in front of the first driving band. Does this affect accuracy? It seems like the bullet is front heavy. Would that cause the nose to drop and/or tumble? RD, I trust you know what you're doing, I just want to understand the dynamics of bullet design better. Thanks.
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Re: RD cast bullet for the 308 Win?

Post by Ranch Dog »

Moon Tree wrote:OK, educate this newby a little. There looks to be a lot of bullet/lead in front of the crimp groove and in front of the first driving band. Does this affect accuracy? It seems like the bullet is front heavy. Would that cause the nose to drop and/or tumble? RD, I trust you know what you're doing, I just want to understand the dynamics of bullet design better. Thanks.
There is a lot of bullet ahead, up front, and it is a delicate balance of ensuring that the center of pressure and center of gravity of the bullet are within an acceptable range. This is one of the issues in designing a cast bullet for a short necked cartridge because the #1 rule is that the bullet body is never aft of the base of the case neck. With this limit exceeded, you really cannot expect much from your cast bullet. When the base of a cast bullet, the alloy, is exposed to the combustion gases, that portion of the bullet is etched or eroded by the high pressure gases. From that point, thing go to heck in a hand basket.
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Re: RD cast bullet for the 308 Win?

Post by Moon Tree »

Thanks Michael for trying to clear this up for me. I understand the need for the base of the bullet to be right at the neck line of the casing. And I think you answered me about the bullet weight balance, also by saying it's a balancing act. My newby thinking is the portion of the bullet that is supported by the barrel as the bullet travels down the barrel, should weigh more than the rest of the bullet. I could be completely wrong in this assumption. There could be other dynamics involved that I don't understand yet. Please correct me if I'm wrong.
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Re: RD cast bullet for the 308 Win?

Post by akuser47 »

Def. looks good Whats the average costs for lee to cut these once they have the specs?
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Re: RD cast bullet for the 308 Win?

Post by Ranch Dog »

Moon Tree wrote: My newby thinking is the portion of the bullet that is supported by the barrel as the bullet travels down the barrel, should weigh more than the rest of the bullet.
Bore bearing surface has some impact on bullet performance but my experience has been to worry more about calculating the center of pressure and the center of gravity, adjusting them within 2.5% of each other with the CP always being forward of the CG.

I look at comparisons, ratios, between bullet volume, bearing length, groove volume and lube weight plus the "centers".
akuser47 wrote:Def. looks good Whats the average costs for lee to cut these once they have the specs?
Lee is now charging a setup fee of $175 plus the mold blocks are $53 each. I usually buy two when I cut a new design and "expense" them out as to producing 5,000 bullets each. I do not worry a "group buy" anymore as it simply isn't worth the effort of herding cats.

A couple of my rifle designs are approaching that production level and are still as good as new. That's less than 3¢ a bullet. My 7.62x39 mold will be one that exceeds this as I do shoot my Savage Scout and Mini-30 quite a bit. Most of my handgun molds have cast over 5,000 bullets now with two molds having cast over 10,000 bullets. That makes a custom bullet pretty cheap. If your counting this kind of stuff, you would need probably throw in a custom sizer as well and that adds another $34 to the sum and it would be still be 3¢ a bullet.

In that this particular design is for my recently acquired Mossberg 800A, there is no way I'm going to shoot a sporting rifle that amount. I will shoot it about 1,000 rounds a decade and I probably only have two decades worth of shooting left in me. That drives the per bullet cost up but I will sell the spare down the road and it would run the total operation down to 1¢ a bullet overall.

I mention these numbers because some balk at the cost of custom molds but don't look at the total picture. A total bullet, like this one, with the alloy, gas check, lube, and the amortized cost of mold and casting equipment is 6¢. I've been doing this for 15 years now and the real benefit is that I haven't needed to buy jacketed bullet in that period but I did managed to shoot just under 200K bullets.
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