deer hunting loads in 357, 158 gr or 180 jacketed bullet.

[Moon Tree]

I'm revisiting the r92 .357 as a deer gun for this season. Two years ago I harvested 2 of the 3 deer I shot with rifle using a 170 g SWC. That's not acceptable recovery for me. So this year I'm wanting to use a bullet that will expend more of it's energy into the deer--thus a jacket hp or sp bullet. So I'm testing a Remington 158 grain HP and an XTP 180 bullet.

I will be shooting them into a cardboard box with at trash bag liner that has sheets of cardboard compacted in it and filled/soaked with water. I don't read newspapers, so the soaked newspaper bricks are not a choice for me. The cardboard/water is the best I can come up with to determine expansion and penetration.

What do you guys think about each of those bullets?

And, what do you think about my testing method?

[Archer]

I like XTPs quite a bit for use out of a handgun for two legged goblin.

It might be that the 180 grain works for your application. I'd want to do some accuracy testing as well as expansion testing. I might be a little concerned that a hollowpoint might open up too fast at rifle velocities if it is intended to open on goblin at handgun velocities.
For that reason I might suggest also testing a jacketed soft point at the same time as the hollows.
They will sometimes hold together better depending on the core composition.

[Ohio3Wheels]

Moon, I've always been leery of "handgun" hollow points on deer sized game for pretty much the same reason Archer mentioned, blow up with little damaging penetration.

As to the testing sounds okay to me, put a bulls-eye in front of the box and get accuracy done at the same time.

Make smoke,

[GasGuzzler]

I would be interested in which mold, powder, charge, etc. was used for the 2/3 loads. A guess on what happened to the lost deer would also be interesting. Where was the shot and what was the range? Y'all know a lot more about this stuff so I'm not suggesting I know better, just wanting to learn.

[Moon Tree]

Archer and Ohio, your point is exactly why I'm doing my redneck testing.

Gas, the mold was a Keith style, sharp angled lube grooves, 168 grains SWC. It was pushed with a hefty dose of Accurate #9 (if memory serves it was running 1777 fps). I'll have to look up the actual data for you tomorrow/today.

The fist deer was a 180 lb field dress buck at 25 yards. I had left my glasses on the bed at deer camp. The diamond on the rear sights were 2 diamonds. I got lucky and spined him on the first shot. After several shots through the boiler room, I still had to finish him off with a neck shot. The 2nd and 3rd deer were does on the same morning. I was hunting in a ground blind and using a mono-pod. First doe presented a slightly quartering away shot at 40 yards. At the hit she hunched at the shoulders and ran out of the field with her belly nearly dragging the ground--a death run.

I was watching another doe and 3 fawns that were with the 1st doe as they milled around confused. Then doe #2 appeared coming from the same direction that the 1st doe had run. I'm thinking maybe I missed the doe or I didn't make a good shot and she came back to join the group. Reality, I've shot enough deer to know that when the run with their belly brushing the ground, it's a dead deer.

But the was a "but" in my thoughts and I needed to finish this deer if it was the 1st doe. She was 60 yards out slightly quartering toward me. I shoot. She runs out of the field with her belly dragging the ground, as does the other 4 deer.

I waited 30 minute then snuck back to the house for some coffee.

I return to the field to check out the first shot. Zero blood. I follow fresh running deer tracks for 100 yard. Still no blood. I went to were the 2nd doe stood. Same deal. I picked up the tracks of the first deer and trailed her through the small cedar thicket on the edge of my farm. Half way through the thicket I could see a dead doe lying in about 20 yards across the fence. By the angle of the entrance and exit wound it was the 1st doe. The only blood I found was when she fail and started kicking and rolling down hill.

I field dressed her and picked up the tracks of the herd (2 does and 3 fawns). They had jumped the fence at the same place as the 1st deer. I'm a pretty fare tracker, but with 5 deer meandering around together it gets tough. One doe separated from the herd heading uphill on a hard packed pasture. I search the little wooded finger ravines but didn't find her. So, I went back to the herd. I lost their trail just before the fence of a property that I didn't have permission to hunt on. All in all, I tracked them for over 500 yards

The question of shot placement: I aimed half way up the deer's body in the seam of the shoulder. I'm confident that my point of impact was within 2" of my point of aim. The doe I field dressed had the entry wound right were I aimed. With my .243 or .270 neither of those deer would have made it out of the field. NOW HERE's the lesson learned: I was taught to aim for the shoulder seam half way up the body. In my research over the last couples of years, that may not be the best bullet placement. I've read several article and studied the anatomy of deer. I'm convinced that the best point of aim on a broadside deer is to follow the front leg up a 1/3 of the body. You still have an 8" kill zone, but there's a better likelihood of hitting the heart. Also, as RD pointed out to me a couple years ago, there's a better chance for blood leaving the body instead of collecting in the diaphram if you shoot hit the animal a bit lower. So on a scale of 1 to 10, I'd give my shot placement and 8.