Neck Sizing Handgun Cases

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Ohio357MagFan
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Neck Sizing Handgun Cases

Post by Ohio357MagFan »

Ladies and Gentleman,

Earlier this year I switched my 357 & 44 Mag Carbide Sizer/Decap dies to the old school steel sizer/decap dies (still use carbide in high volume 9mm). I found the old school steel sizer dies are worth the extra time with lubing cases because the size the cases with a bit of a taper instead of squeezed straight like carbide, the bottom half hardly gets sized and the top half gets more sizing for bullet tension. Plus this makes for a much better looking round and brass in theory should last a lot longer, plus the rounds sized in the steel die fit more snug in chambers.

I've read about people neck sizing straightwall cases with carbide dies, so I thought why not give it a try, I've neck sized 30-06, 223 and 7.62X54 for my bolt actions for years and the brass lasts SUBSTANTIALLY longer then full length sizing. Well, this morning I tried it on some 44 magnum cases, I adjusted the Carbide sizer die so the decap pin was way down and sized only the top of the brass as long as the bullet. I cycled the rounds through my 44 carbine and they all cycled totally smooth!!! Bear in mind this was brass from medium loads (9 gr unique with 240 SWC and 18 gr 2400 and 240 gr swc), I'm not sure if it would work with nuclear loads and I don't know yet how many cycles it will get before it needs full length sized again. In my bolt actions and medium power loadings I have found that I can get about 3-4 firings before the neck sized brass gets too snug, then I do a full length size and get 3-4 more firings with neck sizing only. In theory the neck sizing should not only prolong the life of the brass but produce more accurate loads because the brass is snugger in the chamber.

One more note, I don't think this would work in a revolver because your talking 6 different chambers. In the Rossi Carbines it's just one chamber.

Anybody else have experience with this?
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Re: Neck Sizing Handgun Cases

Post by Archer »

I usually have multiple firearms in each caliber of interest so neck sizing is not something I usually mess with.
I did try it early on with .30-30 and found in the Winchester 94 that it was not a good thing for me. Not enough mechanical advantage with the lever setup and the brass rapidly got to the point that full length resizing it wouldn't restore it to usefulness.
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Re: Neck Sizing Handgun Cases

Post by GasGuzzler »

No point for me but your experiment and results are valuable to others.
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Re: Neck Sizing Handgun Cases

Post by Ohio357MagFan »

Just an update, I tried neck sizing some 357 magnum cases that were fired in my Smith and Wesson model 19 revolver, they all chambered back into the revolver just fine but would not chamber in my Rossi 357 carbine, I've known that the Rossi has a smaller chamber though.

I also made a short 30 second youtube video of the technique I use for neck sizing straight wall cases. I still don't know how many loadings this will go before it's too hard to chamber the round, but I know from years of experience in with neck sizing bottleneck rounds for bolt actions that I always get 2-4 firings before there starts to be resistance when closing the bolt, that depends on how hot the loads are, only getting 2 before resistance are pretty hot loads. The straightwall handgun rounds operate at way lower pressure then any of the bottlenecked cases so I image this will work through quite a few cycles before they need full length sized again....

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Re: Neck Sizing Handgun Cases

Post by Archer »

I still don't know how many loadings this will go before it's too hard to chamber the round, but I know from years of experience in with neck sizing bottleneck rounds for bolt actions that I always get 2-4 firings before there starts to be resistance when closing the bolt, that depends on how hot the loads are, only getting 2 before resistance are pretty hot loads. The straightwall handgun rounds operate at way lower pressure then any of the bottlenecked cases so I image this will work through quite a few cycles before they need full length sized again....
A few things to consider:
The lower operating pressure for handgun rounds may be cause for either thinner or softer brass. Typically on rifle brass the heads are somewhat hardened while the case mouths are annealed. Same thing may apply to straight walled handgun cases but you have to figure that the lower operating pressure STILL has to deform the brass enough to produce a gas seal in the chamber so it is possible that the brass is tailored for that lighter working pressure.

Most bolt actions and particularly those based on the Mauser style action tend to have good mechanical advantage closing the action. You might not even notice that the action requires extra effort to close on a bolt gun when the same round in an action without the mechanical advantage in the breach mechanism would be obviously over size.

I'm assuming you are 'neck sizing' via using the full length sizer die to partially size the brass. I.E. backed off the sizing die slightly. In my rather limited experience that may cause the brass to stretch a bit more than simply neck sizing does even if it isn't quite as much as full length resizing.

Many of my firearms are lever actions or semiautos and they typically don't have the mechanical advantage to benefit from neck sizing. I also typically have multiple firearms in the same calibers so neck sizing for a particular weapon takes those rounds out of circulation for others in the same caliber. I've found that I get quite a few loadings out of straight walled handgun rounds even when loading them to magnum levels. Most defensive semi auto cases will last until the rim gets beaten to the point it doesn't want to slide into the shell holder. At that point a little needle filing may let you get another load or five out of it or you can ditch it because it isn't worth the effort. Semiauto rifles I've loaded as many as 8 to 10 times. At that point the Garand was starting to beat the heck out of the head. I've seen recommendations that after a 4th trimming the brass be discarded to avoid any chance of head separation or rupture of the thinning sidewall above the case head. I'm not 100% certain I agree with that but I tend to use a feeler wire inside the case to search for signs of the case wall thinning and I THINK I might have a handle on that issue.

As reloaders we tend to be scroungers and to horde brass. I have to remind myself from time to time that brass is a consumable. It gets expended and worn out. It has to maintain the pressure seal for the breach of the gun and keep the hot pressurized gas out of your face. While it may be the most expensive part of your reload trying to get one more load out of a bit of worn out brass isn't worth the risk of missing your shot much less potential damage to the firearm or especially the shooter.

Just some random thoughts. Not intended to be a rant. IF you can get the partial sizing working and you get a major improvement in brass life most of the rest of us will be totally interested.
Let us know how it works out.
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Re: Neck Sizing Handgun Cases

Post by Ohio357MagFan »

Archer,

For the bottlenecked cases they actually make separate dies dedicated for neck sizing and they only size down the neck that holds the bullet, the rest of the case is completely untouched. For the straightwall cases I have my own procedure I just invented, here is my youtube video I made showing how I do it...

Just an FYI observation I have noticed when firing the cases that were neck sized in the bottleneck case hi-powered rifles is that the neck sized cases with identical loadings don't flatten primers nearly as much as the identical loadings from cases that were full length sized. Yeah the bolt action does have a stronger camming action but I do have an update, I went out this last weekend and fired both the 44 magnum and 357 magnum cases and here are my observations:

- I only have a 44 magnum rifle, the cartridges I loaded from cases previously fired in the 44 magnum rifle that were necksized all chambered and fired totally fine!!! No hiccups or hard to eject cases (no mega hot loads either though)

- I have both a 357 magnum smith and wesson model 19 revolver and rossi 357 rifle. All six of the chambers in the revolver are larger then the chamber in the rifle. The cartridges I loaded from cases that previously fired in the REVOLVER would go into the chamber of the rifle BUT I had to push the bolt hard to close the action and they extracted very hard. They all chambered and fired and ejected from the revolver perfectly fine. Cartridges I loaded from cases that had previously been fired in the RIFLE all chambered and fired and ejected with ease in BOTH the revolver AND rifle.
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Re: Neck Sizing Handgun Cases

Post by GasGuzzler »

I would expect the above.
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Re: Neck Sizing Handgun Cases

Post by Archer »

I'm aware of the neck only size dies for bottle necked rounds. I own several of them.
Back when I started loading I'm not certain they made them for .30-30 although they might have been available at least as a specialty item. That's the only round I've 'partly' resized however.

If you've got a universal decapper die you might want to knock the primer out that way and simply remove your decap rod from the size die. Less chance of causing any damage that way.
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Re: Neck Sizing Handgun Cases

Post by Ohio357MagFan »

Archer wrote:I'm aware of the neck only size dies for bottle necked rounds. I own several of them.
Back when I started loading I'm not certain they made them for .30-30 although they might have been available at least as a specialty item. That's the only round I've 'partly' resized however.

If you've got a universal decapper die you might want to knock the primer out that way and simply remove your decap rod from the size die. Less chance of causing any damage that way.

Archer, that's a really good idea about the universal decapper die, thanks!!
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