.44 mag - expanded cases

[sheepherder]

Was shooting new S&W M29. Loaded True Blue into Starline cases to push a 240 gr. Sierra, jacketed hollow point ignited by a Winchester LP primer which indicated it is ok for regular and magnum loads.

At higher loads (not max) 11.4 and 11.7 grains of True Blue which should be around 1200 fps, the cases were difficult to get out of the cylinder. Could this be a tight cylinder rather than over pressure? Or is this normal for .44 Mag.

I have shot Unique in the Starline cases and it did not expand .44 mag cases to the point I had to pop the extract with a ammo box to remove. The True blue loads shot really well in a Ruger 77/44 carbine.

An ideas? Am I doing something wrong, should I back off the True Blue, S.O.P. with some .44 mag loads?

Sheepherder

[bamboozler]

Just to establish a baseline what does a cylinder full of factory 240gr jacketed loads do?

[rondog]

I have to ask - were these new cases, and did you resize them first? Or just load 'em up right out of the box?

[sheepherder]

Thanks for the thoughts about expanded cases.
Don't know the answer to sticking issues with new factory cases as I did not buy them at 45 dollars a pop for reloads.
I do know that the new Starline cases (same bag) that I resized before loading and used Unique or IMR 2447 did not stick when fired by the M29

Some things I found out post, post.
1. Crimping too tight (which people recommend for .44 mag) can increase pressure. These rounds were placed correctly for the cannulare and crimp well (visual band with a bit of copper coming off crimp)
2. I rechecked the load data from Sierra and I was no where close to the max loading which is 15.3 grain of True Blue
3. I have read that low pressure loads don't grab the cylinder as well and allows the case to push back and flatten the primers. They were flat to the point of having the rim flow into the primer pocket on about 25 of the 100 cases I loaded with various powders. It seems it was True Blue specific.
4. I have read the some dirty powders can leave the cylinders dirty to the point cases will stick.
5. I clean the revolver between range sessions so I don't think it is carry over, but did should some 10 rounds of True Blue at a lower level (that did not stick) before shooting the loads that did stick.
6. I have heard that Winch LP primers can flatten a bit and not be over pressure. Can't tell you how many posts I read where people do not really pay attention to primer flattening. Reasons, some primers are soft, flattening does not always happen even given high pressure. etc. Some of the cases I resized to load again were particularly expanded at the base.
7. Old quote from Keith, load em till they stick and then back off on the loads.

I am guessing it is best to ignore the powder for the M29 and us Unique or AA9 or IMR 2447.

What would the veteran loader do? Figure it out or move on?

Thanks,
Sheepherder

[Ohio3Wheels]

I think I'd figure it out. I like True Blue and have used it in the 380, 45ACP and 45 Colt, although in the big case I lean toward H110 with the heavier bullets. Some if not most say you don't need to resize new Star Line cases having had problems with new 45 Colt brass from other makers I've just gone to resizing everything new.

If you're seeing jacket flake off at the crimp the crimp is likely too tight or the jackets are way thin. You might back the crimp off a bit or switch to taper crimping.

Make smoke, carefully,

[Archer]

IF on the other hand your seeing a wire stripped off the case mouth at the crimp you may need to finish your chamfer a bit better.

Crimps for magnum level rounds need to be firm.
Crimps for lighter level loads may not need to be as firm but need to hold the bullet in place under recoil.

[sheepherder]

Archer thanks for crimp recommendations.
I have not seen the 'wire' as you described it before I crimp the TrueBlue loads. Have never seen it on the .45lc loads I have made.

Just loaded some .44mag with AA#9 and made an effort to fully understand the 'crimp'. I think that a mild crimp leaves a rim around the case that is less than a millimeter in width. The crimps when I saw the wire were twice as wide (screwed die in more).

Is this the general understanding between a firm crimp versus a non-firm crimp - the width of the crimp on the case? Is it correct to assume the rim on the die does not go further into the case than it sticks out of the die? If so better crimps are because more of the case has been pressed as the case moves up the press?

I have not seen a metric (measure) of a light versus a hard crimp. Must be one?

Sheepherder

[bamboozler]

One of the best ways to make a perfect crimp is copy a perfect crimp from factory round. Here is a Black Hills 44 mag crimp at its finest. A Redding Profile crimp die lays in the same thing. If you look at one of those up close they never crimp the case to the bottom of the cannelure, there is always a very small space between which is fine because most of the bullet pull comes from the case wall.

black-hills44Mag300gr-JHP.jpg

[runfiverun]

sticking cases are always a sign of high pressure if lower pressured one didn't.
the only reason the lower pressured ones would stick is if the cylinder is rough.