NOE 360-180 cast in 357 brass

[donhuff]

I shot a few loads yesterday using this combo. I loaded the bullets long into the lower crimp groove to make more room for powder. I can do this cause I have worked on my r92 and can load long out to 1.750 inches.

Crimping the the lower groove puts this bullet at 1.660 inches long. That gives you another 1/16" of room in the case for more powder.

I made up 5 rounds of of each load working up a ladder in .5 grain increments. Since there is no data to show me where to start at, I use regular 357 data and backed off a bit from max for my start. With the extra room in the case I felt that I would be ok doing this. I was surprised at how much more powder it took to get back up to magnum velocities for the powders I was using and the loads that I used for reference.

I was disappointed though as I did not go high enough up the ladder with any of these loads, to see any pressure signs. I like to see a little pressure so I know where the top is. I'll load up some more and go higher next time.

NOE 360-180 bullet in 357 cases @1.660" OAL

16.5 H110..........1660 FPS (way to low)

17.5 LilGun.........1860 FPS 11.0 sd This load is doing good as the sd is pretty low. A little more powder next time and it will speed up some more.

17.0 300MP..........1680 FPS (to low too)

[GasGuzzler]

I think I was told privately to start around 16.5 H110. Now I'll just let you do the work.

I have W296 but...

I better add 300MP to my list.

[donhuff]

yeah that was way to low in my gun.

not so sure I'g go searching for 300MP just yet. LilGun was doing some super power stuff today! I have always bragged on 300MP in the past, but I am seeing that it just may be a tic to slow for the 357, even with this heavy of a bullet. Maybe in a longer barrel it would do a little better????

[donhuff]

Working that LilGun load up some more from what I did the other day I started this string a half grain higher that where I stopped before. And remember that I am seating these bullets LONG because I have the room to do so.


357 brass, NOE 360-180 bullet, lilgun powder, and 1.660" OAL

18.0..........1855fps 17sd

18.5..........1909 sd 34 No flat primers and extraction is normal. I call this one good.

19.0..........1933 primers a little flat on 2 rounds

19.5..........1955fps Primers getting flat and sticky extraction To HOT.

I had loaded some extra of the 18.5 grain load as this is where the powder was right at the base of the bullet and I figure it would be about max. I got lucky and was right.

So While taking a break from shooting the rifle I deiced to try a few of the 18.5 grain load in my 6 1/2" blackhawk. I'm not gonna do that again! That was plum scary. Fire going out both sides of the gun from the barrel/cylinder gap at least a foot or more, and loud as hail! This looks like factory 357 ammo is what ran through my head. And that's why I don't like it. I was afraid I would set my towel that I put on the bench, on fire! I have to say that it was getting late in the afternoon, and was very cloudy. So that made it look worse, but geeezzz. Velocity was 1437fps so it was a magnum load for sure, and it kicked like what you would expect, hard. Also while this load looked ok in the rifle, it showed 6 flattened primers in the pistol. The cases came out ok without sticking at all taking just a tiny tap from the ejector rod.

So then I moved the target out to 100 yards and shot them in the rifle, still using the 18.5 grain load. The first mag full was to make sure I was close enough to the dot, and that I could make something that looked like a group. I did not expect a tight group cause in the past when shooting heavies through the rossi at 100 yards, I have been disappointed.

To my surprise, the group didn't look so bad, even for one that I was not to careful with. Hummm. So I loaded up five more and got serious. WOW, I was shocked. I pulled one a little low and one got a little high but the main cluster of three measures 3/4 inch by 1/4 inch! and the whole 5 shot group measures 2-3/8" with that distance being vertical. The horizontal spread is a little less than 5/8ths of a inch. This was shot using the weaver 4x scope like RD recommends, so the cross hairs completely cover up my little 3/4" black dot stick on that I use for a target. I bet that if I were to put my 24 power target scope on this gun, I could shrink that group some more because I could actually see what I was aiming at with it. But I would probably have a new scar over my eye too. That scope has only about 1 inch of eye relief, so I aint gonna do it.

I know a few of you have listened to me talk about my powder coated bullets shooting so clean. Here is a good example. This group was shot at the end of the day, after doing all that shooting over the chronograph. I did not clean the barrel in any way not even by running a dry patch down it. I did not even look down the barrel as I have learned that it is a waste of time cause there is nothing in there that needs cleaning out. I really did not have enough time to clean as after talking with the other shooters at the range and shooting their gun across the chrono, and listening to the range officer who was in a talkative mood. I had to hurry up before it got to dark to see the target!
I shot about 110 rounds this time out, and shot 280 rounds the day before, so that's 390 rounds total and most of those were at magnum (and over) levels. Then this group being shot at round numbers 375 to 380 without cleaning the bore. I don't think that I could do that with regular lubed bullets.

[Ranch Dog]

NOE has had me running some data, here is the 360-180 WFN 360 Dan Wesson.

http://www.ranchdogoutdoors.com/data/NO ... _360DW.pdf

[Ranch Dog]

Here is the 360-180-WFN Data for the 357 Mag

http://www.ranchdogoutdoors.com/data/NO ... 357Mag.pdf

...and the 38 Spl

http://www.ranchdogoutdoors.com/data/NO ... _38Spl.pdf

[Ranch Dog]

Don... could you verify your bullet and brass length for me. QuickLoad is saying the 19.5-grain load of Lil-Gun was 77.500 KPSI!!!

[donhuff]

Sure,

I don't think it ever got quite that high! (77,000). I know it was to high as I think three of the five primers were getting flat, but the other two were normal looking. But I still decide to back down to 18.5 for what I called my max loading.

For the 357 brass loads I used random brand brass and it measures between 1.277 to 1.289 over the 8 cases that I measured.

The bullet, which is the 180 RF and not the 180 WFN, measures .745" average with a gas check installed. The bottom crimp groove is .350" from the base of the gas check, and this is where I was crimping it in this brass and that gave me an OAL of about 1.670" average.

I just went out and checked that it takes 18.4 grains of LilGun. to fill the case up to the base of the bullet, for a 100% fill. (Actually measured not calculated).

I have a 100cc burette and can actually measure the true capacity in CCs of water, on a few cases if you need me to.


The 360 brass is 1.412" for most that I measured, and using the same bullet but crimping in the upper grove gets me an OAL like you show in your data , around 1.725 to 1.735".


BTW, when is Al gonna get your mold designs in stock? I think your 175 grain would actually work better for this and for accuracy since it is shorter. By the time I put a gas check on it and got it painted, I bet it would weigh right at 180 grs.

[cdmajesty]

Don, those velocities are smokin! I shoot the MP version of this "group buy" bullet in it's solid form and in a plain-based design. Btw, I think the MP version and the NOE version are exactly the same, as long as they are both based off of the original Glenn Larson design. I then add a pb gas check to the bullet. With 50/50 ww/soft alloy I get around 190 grains in its solid form. Anyway, around 16 grains lil gun gets me 1800 fps out of the 16" tube in my Rossi in 357 mag brass, of course.

Michael,

I've chronographed the above load at 100 and 200 yards. I get around 1400 fps at 100 and 1100-1125 at 200. When I punched those velocites into the JBM ballistics program, I get a BC around .17 over that range of velocity.

[Okie44]

The bullet Don is shooting is a BRP design that was run on a group buy at NOE a while back. Single lube groove and dual crimp grooves.
Edit for pics from NOE