M92 38/357 Lead Bullet Accuracy Loads

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mr surveyor
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Re: M92 38/357 Lead Bullet Accuracy Loads

Post by mr surveyor »

just for the record, my son and I have seen cases of leading in our revolvers with light loads using HiTec coated Bayou Bullets a time or two. A call to Mr. Donnie (now retired) explained that we weren't sufficiently "bumping up" the bullets (insufficient obturation) and that the coating may have been somewhat damaged during the loading process ... exposing some lead. I've never had a problem with HiTec coated bullets running them at mid to upper levels recommended for cast bullets. Bayou Bullets, like many of the bulk commercial casters, come in one variety as far as sizing goes .... and they aren't gonna fit everyone's bore perfectly for all powder charge weights.

just my experiences :)


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Re: M92 38/357 Lead Bullet Accuracy Loads

Post by Cheyenne4090 »

Thanks Surveyor,

I think the coating got torn, maybe in the loading process or feeding into the chamber. If you look at Precision bullets website they show a bullet where they drilled a hole in a coated bullet and melted the lead out of the coating. They do caution against using a roll crimp as that might tear the coating. You may be right that I didn't shoot them fast enough to bump up the bullet and get a good seal. I have in the past shot some over 1,700 fps and do not remember any problems. Anyway there are better choices for my application so I won't be using anymore in my Rossi. They are some nice looking bullets though and priced very reasonable. I have some for my .45 ACP 1911. Haven't shot them yet though.
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Re: M92 38/357 Lead Bullet Accuracy Loads

Post by mr surveyor »

I think what we experienced (leading with HiTec Bayou Bullets) was due mainly to down loading way too much ... and the fact the bullets were sized to fit the tightest of bores. I've run the 240 gr swc Bayou Bullets in my 44 mag R92 from 930+/- fps up to 1600 fps with absolutely no problems - but (I haven't slugged my own barrel) it's my understanding from RD's and others' experience, the Rossi barrels are pretty consistent when it comes to SAAMI spec barrel diameters. Without checking my data, I believe the Bayou Bullets are sized to .430 for the .44 mag and .358 for the .357mag. I still like the Bayou Bullets, but a good, proper fitting cast bullet with Lee Liquid Alox just seems to make my day when it comes to consistency and accuracy.


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Re: M92 38/357 Lead Bullet Accuracy Loads

Post by donhuff »

JD,

I don't see how a light load could ever make a coated bullet cause leading. The fit to the bore of an over sized bullet stopping lead is because the lead is touching the steel barrel. That should not happen with the coated bullet, ever. Maybe if the bullet was so small and the pressure leaked between the bore and bullet it could strip the coating off and the lead would touch. But that don't sound like a "lite" load to me.

The 147g 9mm bullets that I once tried were sized at .356", correct for a 9mm's .355 bore, but not my rossi's .357" sized barrel. They did not shoot accurately, but did not cause any leading either.

I can see there being a problem if you did not bell the cases enough, and when seating the bullet, the sharp end of the case shaved the coating off. But that's not the coatings fault.

I crimp all my straight walled pistol rounds pretty heavily. I just like a heavy crimp, even on light loads. And when pulling bullets for whatever reason, I have seen where the crimp would shave off some of the coating. But I have never seen this cause a leading issue with light loads, and I have shot some really light ones too.
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16" SS 92 357
20" BL 92 357
20" SS 92 44
20" BL 92 44
20" Bl 92 45C
20" Bl 92 454
SS Rio Grande 30-30
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Re: M92 38/357 Lead Bullet Accuracy Loads

Post by mr surveyor »

Don, I wasn't blaming it on the coating. Like I said in my first post regarding the Bayou Bullets and conversation with Donnie .... it was understood that the issue was a mousefart load under a coated bullet that had some damage to the coating during loading. And, since the "one size fits all" bullets were a bit small for the bore of the GP100 that experienced the leading, there's no way it could not have been an issue - again considering the circumstances involved.

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Re: M92 38/357 Lead Bullet Accuracy Loads

Post by donhuff »

My point was that I do not see how a coated bullet can cause leading even if it IS to small and no matter how slow it was going. I understand that you think the coating was scraped off, but then, it's not a coated bullet, nor is it a lubed bullet. It's just naked lead in the bore, and it has to leave some lead behind.


Anyway, you scared me into thinking that maybe I should clean my rifle after shooting all those 360 loads the other day. Maybe I too have a little trace of lead in there that will mess up my next volley of 360s. And I don't want nuttin to skew the results since this next batch of 180 grain bullets are going to be moving a little faster I hope. I loaded enough above what I think will be max, that surely this time I will hit the top of the pressure curve! I loaded to what I thought would be max, then added a few more rungs to the ladder. Hopefully I'll have to take some home and pull some bullets.

So I ran a few patches down the bore to see what came out after 60-360s, 73-357s, and 35-38 specials.

left to right. 1st dry patch, next an acetone wet one, one more wet one, and another dry one. I ran a brush through it a few times and then the last dry one. And like I thought, it could have gone another 200 to 500 more rounds before it actually NEEDED cleaning. No trace of lead either.
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to bad those that know it all, cant do it all!
16" SS 92 357
20" BL 92 357
20" SS 92 44
20" BL 92 44
20" Bl 92 45C
20" Bl 92 454
SS Rio Grande 30-30
Bl Rio Grande 45-70
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Re: M92 38/357 Lead Bullet Accuracy Loads

Post by Archer »

IF you think the coating is getting torn during the loading process then I'm back to recommending the Lyman M die and making sure you get a bit of belling on the case mouth.

In my experience with several calibers this gives you a tight to the case fit without shaving lead or plating or coating. Then you turn the casemouth back with the crimper and check it for tension/movement with pressure on the nose. (I put some weight into my thumbs on the case head with the bullet nose being pushed into the bench.) IF it moves then I tend to adjust for a tighter crimp. IF it can't be fixed with crimp then the brass is probably been run enough times that it is ragged out. I use the same procedure for both revolver bullets with a roll crimp and semi auto bullets with a taper crimp. Seems to work for me.

IF the coating is being torn during the loading or feeding process then that's a trip through the gun looking for burrs and sharp edges. Burnish, polish etc. lightly where required as long as you aren't over doing.
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M92 38/357 Lead Bullet Accuracy Loads

Post by GasGuzzler »

Not to over-simplify but I can nearly guarantee I scratched Don's coating on the .38s I loaded by under-flaring (due to miserly ways concerning brass). They're popcorn loads for my M88 so I don't fear leading....but then again we are talking fart loads and coated bullets so....

I posted pics. At least I think I did.
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Re: M92 38/357 Lead Bullet Accuracy Loads

Post by donhuff »

no pics +corn
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to bad those that know it all, cant do it all!
16" SS 92 357
20" BL 92 357
20" SS 92 44
20" BL 92 44
20" Bl 92 45C
20" Bl 92 454
SS Rio Grande 30-30
Bl Rio Grande 45-70
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Re: M92 38/357 Lead Bullet Accuracy Loads

Post by donhuff »

4090,

Those 157 grain badman bullets came in today. As you'll see in the picture later, they are NOT a longer version of the lee 125RF. They are very similar but the meplat is even smaller which I like, and the nose is a little longer from the crimp groove to the meplat. If you hold them side by side, lined up on the crimp groove, it looks like they extended the nose a little, and added another grease groove and driving band to the base of the lee.

I did not get but 50, I bet I'll have to order some more for a good test. Wish I could get them without grease grooves, then I could put plain base gas checks on a few too.
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Don Huff

to bad those that know it all, cant do it all!
16" SS 92 357
20" BL 92 357
20" SS 92 44
20" BL 92 44
20" Bl 92 45C
20" Bl 92 454
SS Rio Grande 30-30
Bl Rio Grande 45-70
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