M92 38/357 Lead Bullet Accuracy Loads

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Cheyenne4090
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M92 38/357 Lead Bullet Accuracy Loads

Post by Cheyenne4090 »

I am looking for an accurate load for shooting out to 200yds in gong matches. The bullets have to be lead without a gas check. For the past few years I have been using old R-P Target Master 38spl factory loads (158gr soft LSWC). This is the only load I found that shot good in my 24" rifle with the 1/30 twist. With this ammo I get 1,032 fps, around 1" at 100, 3 1/2" at 150 and 5" at 200. I have tried various hand loads but came to the conclusion the rifling was too shallow or the twist was too slow for whatever I tried. Now after reading the posts here it looks like I need to revisit reloading for the rifle. I will say that most of my hand loads shoot 1" out to 50 yards but fall apart after that. I am looking for the most accurate lead bullet load in 38 or 357 that anyone has. Also I have about 7 lbs of WW231 so if you have an accuracy load that uses that powder even better. I will note that the Target Master load I have been using is so slow that I had to make a sight extension for my Marbles Tang Sight to get on target at 150 and 200 so if I had a faster load that was also accurate I could hopefully get rid of the extension. Thanks
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Re: M92 38/357 Lead Bullet Accuracy Loads

Post by donhuff »

Ha, 231 (HP38) is the powder I, and several others use to get the best accuracy out of their rossi 357. You did not state a bullet weight, so I'm guessing that you are open to using whatever.

The Lee 125 RF bullet does extremely well at 100 yards using 5.2 (plus or minus a few tenths) of the hp38/231. http://leeprecision.com/6-cav-358-125-rf.html I do not know how it does at 200 as I have never tried it out that far. But it does so well at 100 that I just cant see it falling apart in the next 100 yards. Being that light, I know it will slow down faster, but at 100, it out does my heavier bullet quite a lot.

And put this load in 357 brass to get it a little closer to the throat. In theory that ought to help but some member say it does well in 38 brass too.

I found this load over on the cast boolits forum, and there are several there who swear by it.

easy on the shoulder too!
Don Huff

to bad those that know it all, cant do it all!
16" SS 92 357
20" BL 92 357
20" SS 92 44
20" BL 92 44
20" Bl 92 45C
20" Bl 92 454
SS Rio Grande 30-30
Bl Rio Grande 45-70
Cheyenne4090
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Re: M92 38/357 Lead Bullet Accuracy Loads

Post by Cheyenne4090 »

Thanks for the information Don. Do you have any idea what kind of velocity you're getting out of your rifle with this load? And yes you are correct I'm open to any of the bullet weights.
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Re: M92 38/357 Lead Bullet Accuracy Loads

Post by donhuff »

Seems like 1100-1200. I'll look tomorrow and see for sure.
Don Huff

to bad those that know it all, cant do it all!
16" SS 92 357
20" BL 92 357
20" SS 92 44
20" BL 92 44
20" Bl 92 45C
20" Bl 92 454
SS Rio Grande 30-30
Bl Rio Grande 45-70
donhuff
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Re: M92 38/357 Lead Bullet Accuracy Loads

Post by donhuff »

Looks like I was shooting 5.3 HP38 125RF lee @ 1192FPS average.

I have a 16" barrel, so in your 24" I would expect it to be closer to 1250fps.

And if you do not cast, you can find this bullet commercially cast from a number of places. But be sure it is this profile and not the older 125g model. The new one seems to be a lot better than the old one.

http://www.midwayusa.com/product/673831 ... box-of-500

and coated non leading http://www.snscasting.com/38-357-130-gr ... ed-1000ct/
Don Huff

to bad those that know it all, cant do it all!
16" SS 92 357
20" BL 92 357
20" SS 92 44
20" BL 92 44
20" Bl 92 45C
20" Bl 92 454
SS Rio Grande 30-30
Bl Rio Grande 45-70
Cheyenne4090
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Re: M92 38/357 Lead Bullet Accuracy Loads

Post by Cheyenne4090 »

Thanks again Don. I just ordered 500 of the 130gr SNS bullet you recommended http://www.snscasting.com/38-357-130-gr ... ed-1000ct/, if it works in my rifle I will get the Lee mold for the bullet. The SNS web site says they can be shot at over 1,700 fps in a rifle without leading, I am curious to see what happens accuracy wise when they are pushed faster than 1,200 fps. I will post my results here.

I am also interested in trying some of the heavy bullet loads Ranch Dog is using in his Hog rifle, says he is getting good accuracy at 100yds like 1.4 inches. If those loads stay consistent out to 200yds with 3 to 4 inch groups that would be awesome. Those heavy bullets have a much higher bc which would help with wind drift. I shoot in Wyoming and Nebraska and the wind is always blowing!
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Re: M92 38/357 Lead Bullet Accuracy Loads

Post by donhuff »

I think that I have shot them at around 21-2200fps, but yes, not good accuracy. But with the coated bullets you WILL NOT GET LEADING even at 2200fps.

Seems like they were still pretty accurate at 15-1600.

BTW they call them 130 grains to make em sound different from their 125 grain bullets. They actually weigh closer to 130 than 125 when I cast and coat them.
Don Huff

to bad those that know it all, cant do it all!
16" SS 92 357
20" BL 92 357
20" SS 92 44
20" BL 92 44
20" Bl 92 45C
20" Bl 92 454
SS Rio Grande 30-30
Bl Rio Grande 45-70
Cheyenne4090
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Re: M92 38/357 Lead Bullet Accuracy Loads

Post by Cheyenne4090 »

I shot these at 100yds today while waiting on my SNS 130gr cast bullets to arrive. I had this post with a lot more detail on group size but did something and lost my work. Guess I need to save a draft every so often! Anyway the hands down winner was the last load tested which was some old and formerly corroded R-P 357 Mag 125gr JHP. This stuff was given to me years ago after being left in a damp barn. It had a white powder on the nickel cases and bullets. I put it in a vibratory case cleaner and it seems to work fine. Anyway I shot 8 of the 10 shots into a group 1 1/4" tall x 3/4" wide. One flier went high about 1 1/2" and one went low about 4" but also clocked 200fps slower. This stuff averaged 2050fps in my 24" barrel. The second best group was #13 below, R-P 38spl Target Master, 158gr swaged SWC. 8 of the 9 shots went 1 3/8" Tall x 2" Wide (don't know why I didn't shoot 10). The 38s were also corroded and cleaned like the 357s. Group #5 went 2 1/4" Tall x 2 3/4" wide. When I have time I will add all the group sizes next to each load in the chart below. I did notice many of the slower loads seemed to be more affected by the wind and some of the faster loads seemed to string vertically. The worst group by far was #7. I stopped after 4 shots, 20" Tall x 9" Wide! Also I wanted to post a few pictures of the best groups but could not figure it out.

Rossi M92, 24" 38/357 loads @ 100 yards, 10 shot groups, Lyman 17A front sight and Marbles Tang rear sight.
12/14/2015

Bullets 147 FP swaged coated Precision Bullets (actual weight 149gr)
158gr Speer swaged SWC
145gr Lee SWC
160gr Hornady JTC-SIL

Primers WSP for everything but 296 and 2400 which used WSPM

Target Ctg Powder Wgt Bullet OAL fps ES Sd Group Height Width
1 357 Mag 231 5.0 147 FP 1.60 1107 19 5.3 1-3/4" x 2-1/2"
2 357 Mag 231 5.0 158 SWC 1.58 1104 32 8.5 4-1/4 x 5-1/8
3 357 Mag 231 5.4 158 SWC 1.58 1159 42 14.6 4 x 3
4 357 Mag 231 5.4 147 FP 1.60 1164 43 12.5 2-3/4 x 3-3/4
5 357 Mag 231 6.0 147 FP 1.60 1264 25 7.5 2-1/4 x 2-3/4
6 357 Mag 231 6.5 147 FP 1.60 1342 30 10.0 4-7/8 x 2-3/4
7 38 Spl 231 3.5 145 Lee 1.43 954 48 18.0 20 x 9 four shots!
8 357 Mag H4227 14.0 160gr 1.58 1416 127 39.0 5 x 4-1/8
9 357 Mag 231 6.9 147 FP 1.60 1404 28 9.5 8-1/4 x 6-3/4
10 357 Mag 296 14.0 147 FP 1.60 1563 101 32.5 6-1/4 x 3-1/4
11 357 Mag 296 15.0 147 FP 1.60 1719 106 32.3 10-1/4 x 8-1/2
12 357 Mag 2400 13.5 147 FP 1.60 1738 66 18.8 10 x 11-1/2
13 38 Spl R-P Tgt Master 158 SWC 1.43 1009 44 12.7 1-3/8 x 2
14 357 Mag R-P 18.8 125 JHP 1.57 2050 81 31.0 1-1/4 x 3/4

Sorry its all run together, it looks good when I write it but when I post it pushes it together. I will have to learn how to post this kind of stuff in a chart.
Last edited by Cheyenne4090 on 15 Dec 2015 13:17, edited 1 time in total.
donhuff
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Re: M92 38/357 Lead Bullet Accuracy Loads

Post by donhuff »

Not to unusual for that #7 load to do that poorly. The slow twist in the rossi, requires that the bullet be moving along pretty fast. It seem like somewhere around 1000-1100 is the break point. Lighter (shorter?) bullets do a little better, but then even with a light charge tend to get up there speed wise. If you had tried them at 25 they might have looked like they would be ok. Then move to 100 and watch them scatter!

I loaded some 170g SWC bullets in front of 3.5 bullseye once for my son's 38 special. I ran them through the rossi only to find out that I could not hit a 8"x16" steel plate at 25 yards! I can put that same load in my 6 inch ruger pistol and shoot a 6-8" group at 100.


I tried some 147rf bullets in the rossi once, that I had gotten for a new 38 super pistol. They did not do to well with any load I tried> They were coated and I think they were .357 for the supers smaller bore. I usually size to .3585-.359" because of the ruger's big throats. The smaller bullets might have been the problem, but they did not show enough promise to make me want to get a mold for them. But they did do super, in the super :D and I could have gotten a mold for that reason. But my 170 SWC did just as well and looks plum wicked loaded in the super's case, especially with a bright orange coating. And they feed good as round nose bullets do. Shooting this in an autoloader is usually against the "RULES" so the guy next to you at the range will wonder WTH??? Your 147s being swaged might be too soft as they are usually made from pure lead, for the swaging process to work. Not sure, but just a thought.

It does not surprise me that the jacketed bullets did the best. I usually find that to be the case with my loading for rossi 92s too. I love casting, painting, and loading cast bullets, but I just do not put the effort into them to make them shoot as well or better than jacketed bullets do. If I would use gas checks and weight sort and spend more time with them, I'm sure I could make em do better. But I cast more for volume and plinking. Don't get me wrong, I do have some really accurate loads with cast. And in certain guns I never have shot but a few jacketed bullets because cast does so well. I probably got lucky and found a good cast load right off the bat with those guns!

Those sns 130rf should work great and you'll get to try out painted bullets too. First thing you'll notice is the reduced amount of smoke, then next will be how clean your hands are after shooting 100 or three. Then when you look down the bore you will be shocked to see nothing...nada...zilch. Never ever will I lube again after shooting coated bullets. ( I went back and reread your post and saw that you already have tried coated). I think the sns ones are HiTech which is an epoxy instead of powder coating, but they do the same thing.
Don Huff

to bad those that know it all, cant do it all!
16" SS 92 357
20" BL 92 357
20" SS 92 44
20" BL 92 44
20" Bl 92 45C
20" Bl 92 454
SS Rio Grande 30-30
Bl Rio Grande 45-70
Cheyenne4090
Posts: 53
Joined: 08 Dec 2015 16:19
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Re: M92 38/357 Lead Bullet Accuracy Loads

Post by Cheyenne4090 »

I did a quick test of the SNS Lee 130gr RF coated bullets today. I used 357 brass, 5.5gr of WW231 and loaded to 1.59" OAL. Velocity was about 1230fps out of the 24" barrel. They feed just fine in my M92. I put 8 shots into a group 2 3/4" tall at 100yds. I consider that a great start and will try again under better conditions. It was cold this morning, about 25 to 30 degrees and the wind was blowing left to right about 20 mph! I was using a card table as a shooting bench and the table was moving with the wind, second my front aperture was smaller than the 11" steel gong I was shooting at so it was hard to tell if I was centered on the target as I couldn't see the edge of the target. I am hopeful the groups will tighten up under better conditions and with a slightly larger front aperture.
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