M92 38/357 Lead Bullet Accuracy Loads

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Re: M92 38/357 Lead Bullet Accuracy Loads

Post by GasGuzzler »

Off topic but I there's a 32WCF Colt from the BP era I will load with 2400 so it smokes and I don't have to run it through the dishwasher.
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Re: M92 38/357 Lead Bullet Accuracy Loads

Post by cdmajesty »

Cheyenne4090 wrote:If you really want to make your head hurt think about this. My baseline target load, the Remington Target Master 158gr LSCW, leaves the barrel at 1032 fps and is still going 810 fps at 225yds, a loss of about 200 fps. Now that same bullet fired at 1700 fps is going 1020 fps at 225, a loss of about 700 fps over the same distance!

Now if my 45-70 launches a 535 grain bullet with a BC of .450 at 1100 fps that bullet is still going 788 fps at 1,000 yds, losing only about 300 fps over 1000 yds.
Well, I did some range time today. I shot the 360640 hp (actually weighed this time at 148 grains. It has a meplat of about .23. I intentionally loaded them to about 1030 fps out of the muzzle. I chronoed them at 100 yards at 900 fps. The BC does not seem to be any different when launched at subsonic vs supersonic velocities. My normal load is at 1300 fps, and it gets 1070 or so at 100 yards (and 930 fps at 200 yards).

IMO, I'm calling bunk to your 158 LSWC having those big discrepancies that you described when launched at subsonic vs supersonic velocities. That's why I don't trust those tables, even if it's Hornady.
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Re: M92 38/357 Lead Bullet Accuracy Loads

Post by Cheyenne4090 »

Cd,

Thanks for the PM. I've been offline for a while working on another project.

I ran your loads through the Hornady ballistic calculator using a bc of .160 for your bullet here's what I got:

Muzzle velocity of 1030, at 100yds 915 fps, 200yds 833 fps (you got 900fps at 100)

Muzzle velocity of 1300, at 100yds 1062 fps, 200yds 934 fps ( you got 1070 at 100 and 930 at 200)

I think you proved the tables right. If you could test the same bullet at say 1700 fps that would really prove it one way or the other IMO. I have used this same program to calculate drop and sight adjustments out to 1,000 yards for my 45-70 and it has proven to be very accurate in my experience.
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Re: M92 38/357 Lead Bullet Accuracy Loads

Post by cdmajesty »

For some reason I think I either misread your previous posts or didn't read them carefully enough or something. I see now that we are in agreement that when bullets are launched faster they also bleed off speed faster to a certain point. But the bullet that is started faster will always remain faster. At no point will it produce less energy, more wind drift, and a more rainbow trajectory than the identical bullet that is started out slower. Of course, this assumes that everything else is equal, including bullet stability in flight.

For example, I just posted this info here: viewtopic.php?f=19&t=4587&start=40

It's a 190 grain wfn launched at 1785 fps. 100 yard velocity is around 1400; 200 yard velocity is around 1155; and 300 yard velocity is around 1055. So, BC changes with speed.
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Re: M92 38/357 Lead Bullet Accuracy Loads

Post by Cheyenne4090 »

Cd,

First your 192 gr load is smoking and super accurate for a 357 lever gun!

Second, I ran the numbers on your 1785 fps 192gr load using a bc of .18 and 10 mph crosswind and here is what I got.
Muzzle 1785, 100yds 1426 wind drift 3.6 inches, 200yds 1158 wind 15.4 and 300yds 1002 wind 35.1. Pretty close to your actual results.

I also ran the same data with a 1040 fps muzzle velocity.
Muzzle 1040, 100yds 932 wind 3.2 inches, 200yds 854 wind 11.7 and 300yds 791 wind 25.2.

For fun I tried the same data with a 3000 fps muzzle velocity, it is still going 1637 fps and it only has 19 inches of wind drift at 300yds.

So I think we agree on everything except for the wind effect. In other words a bullet started faster will always be going faster than the same bullet started slower but a faster bullet will not always have less wind drift. A bullet that approaches and then passes through the sound barrier as it slows down will have more wind drift than a bullet that stays below the speed of sound or stays well above the speed of sound. This is all irrelevant if there is no wind or if the range is 100yds or so. Of course most modern hunting bullets have a bc much higher than were dealing with here and they are going way above the speed of sound all the way to the target so this is not something most people ever encounter. Usually faster means less wind drift but not always. Guess we can just agree to disagree on this minor point.

Thanks again for posting your results, I am still amazed at the accuracy of your 192 gr load at 300yds!
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Re: M92 38/357 Lead Bullet Accuracy Loads

Post by cdmajesty »

I can't say I've noticed this effect, but I also haven't been looking for it. I will pay more attention to this phenomenon next time I have the chance in a good cross wind. Thanks for pointing it out.
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Re: M92 38/357 Lead Bullet Accuracy Loads

Post by Cheyenne4090 »

Rossi 357 Badman 157 RNFP 4.5 231 (640x360).jpg
Thought I would post this after a long absence from the forum. I think I may finally be on to something here!

Shot this today at 100yds with a 10mph wind quartering from the left rear. I was using Marbles tang sight with a Lyman front aperture.
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Re: M92 38/357 Lead Bullet Accuracy Loads

Post by Ranch Dog »

Very impressive!
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Re: M92 38/357 Lead Bullet Accuracy Loads

Post by Archer »

Supersonic forms a shock on the bullet, both leading and trailing edges.
That shock is proportional to the speed of the projectile and to some extent the shape of the bullet.
Hence spitzer bullets allow the shock to fold back along the bullet and have less drag as a result while wide flat nosed bullets have to force a wider shock front through the air and have more drag.
Thus the faster you push the projectile the faster it bleeds off energy because the shock is stronger with speed and you notice it a heck of a lot more with buff shapes than with sharp ones.
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Re: M92 38/357 Lead Bullet Accuracy Loads

Post by Cheyenne4090 »

Archer that was my thinking in choosing this bullet and shooting it at such a slow speed to keep it subsonic. The trajectory is much higher but it certainly isn't affected by the wind as much. I still need to try it at 200 but it's been too windy the last few days. As an added bonus it cycles great through my rifle.
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