New to reloading

[Esel]

I just purchased a new Rossi 92 and Ruger Blackhawk, both in 357/38 special caliber. The Blackhawk is a convertible model that also shoots 9mm. I want to purchase a Lee Challenger reloading kit to start off on. I have a choice of the "Anniversary" or the standard model. The main difference in the kits is the priming feature. The Anniversary kit utilizes a press mounted priming feature, and the Breech Lock Single stage kit utilizes a Lee hand primer and shellholders. What would be the better choice? My greatest concern would be safety. I would probably be reloading the .38 specials only, at least to begin with, and possibly the .357 magnums and 9mm in the future. Would I be better off with a 3 die set for the .38 specials? Or would I be better off with the 4 die set that includes the factory crimp die? My reloading will be for the Ruger Blackhawk and Rossi 92. Would the factory crimp die provide any benefits with the .38 specials, such as easier cycling in the 92, etc?

I'm also interested in using Trail Boss powder. Would this be suitable for both the Rossi 92 rifle and Ruger Blackhawk revolver? And would I be able to use plated bullets, such as Berry's, etc? Or would I need to stick with lead bullets? Being that Trail Boss is a fast burning powder and intended for hand gun length barrels, will there be enough force to propel a plated bullet through a longer rifle barrel? I've conducted a lot of research on the web, but I'm not finding any clear answers on these questions. As you can probably tell, I'm new at this and could use all the advise I could get.

Thanks, Esel

[akuser47]

personally I like the hand primer myself safe and cause I can sit and prime cases seperate from my press as I am tumbling other brass and things for prep. I love the breech lock press single stage I reload precision .308 for long range, 9mm CCW and plinking ,.45acp CCW and plinking, .38 special and .357 mag CCW and plinking, for my favorite guns at the moment. The 4 die set is what I got for my .38/.357. For the little more I would get the deluxe set so you don't wish you had later. Some bullets with less diamter need a crimp to secure them better this is where knowing your chamber of the gun in qeustion comes in handy like doing a cast of your chamber to get the demisions so you know what bullet will work best Though I don't. I just shoot all kinds of loads until I find one she likes and beens I like to load and shoot my ammo it works out. Trail boss is good powder If I were you I would look into Hp38 or universal powder for .38special loads and universal works great in my 9mm loads as well. Best to get your loading book first then start tinkering with the what brand an such to go with me my favorite load for my 92 and Vaquero is .357 mag with remington brass, winchester primer,9.9 grains of blue dot, topped with an hornady XTP 158 grain JHP, seated to O.A.L. 1.58 this load has turned out strong and accurate so far but that does not mean it works for everyone. For my main plinking round I shot plated and use universal powder cheaper and shots great. I think trail boss will work fine with rifle and pistol using plated bullets but if you contact berry's they sometimes have better answers for what works. They know what has been used I have not used trail boss, but it is on my list. Sorry I started to ramble on. hope this helps a bit.

[Esel]

Thanks akuser47, that pretty much answers all my questions. I'll be off no to pick up the press kit!

Thanks again for the help. Esel

[mikld]

I have had no good results with the Lee FCD. If you'e going to shoot lead bullets you should slug the barrel of your Rossi, and the chamber throats of the Blackhawk. For the Rossi, use bullets .002" larger than groove diameter, and the same diameter as the cylinder throats for your Blackhawk. When the bullets are sized correctly, you get little leading and prolly the best accuracy.

I firmly believe that if you learn to reload properly, the Lee FCD is not needed (how many millions of rounds of ammo have been successfully reloaded prior to Lee introducing their FCD?). Die adjustment, when done "properly", will eliminate any "problems" that the Lee FCD die "fixes"...

[Puddle-jumper]

Here is the Lee reloading kit that I purchased from Midway:
http://www.midwayusa.com/product/785993 ... deluxe-kit

I like it real well. A pleasure and fun to use.
I got the 3 die set for 357 which also loads the 38 special but you have to re-set the dies to a different
depth to do so. So in order to change from 357 to 38 special I bought an additional turret for the 38 special
and used a set of dies I already had. Quick change from one to the other. The bullet seater die that comes
with the 3 die set can be set for any amount of crimp you want.
I plan to get additional turrets for my 44 magnum and for my 30 carbine.

Here is my reloading bench:









______________________________
Charles in kY

[akuser47]

Well I guess I am the only fan of the FCD here so far. I was hesitant to get the deluxe set at first but I read alot of how people used the FCD and the whys and decided to get the deluxe die set. I don't always use it but sometimes she is great to have for my lead reloads as stated you can use the standard die adjusted properly to get a good crimp. It can be tuff for a new loader sometimes to crimp without crushing at least it was for me. Slowing down I got the hang of it, but I liked the FCD better for crimping. I think for the little more it costs for the deluxe set I would get it. It is all in the eyes of the beeholder. I have only been loading for I think it's been 9 years now maybe 8 years if that. So I am still a rookie and many here have better advice from experience than me. What I always do is look at places like midway and read reviews of the product you want and let them tell you what they think of any item you want it has saved me money by reading reviews many times. They tell the tale of bad and good in most cases. No matter what you get report in with your choice and any qeustions you may have lots of people here to help. Hey puddle-jumper good idea on second turret for .38special I bought a second bullet seating die for this reason with my single stage. One of these days I may get myself a lee turret press to pump out some ammo faster I need to get a fast powder deispenser of some kind first like the RCBS chargemaster setup or similar I thought about trying the lee auto disk to because of it's price. What do you use to get charges and how consistent is it? I am using an old OHAUS 1010 scale which is now owned and sold by RCBS

[Ranch Dog]

Just been a bit tied up with work but I'm a big Lee fan, heck I'm a dealer, and have used Lee products for quite a long time. I shoot, on average over the last decade, 25,000 rounds of ammunition annually that I have reloaded with Lee products. That is a bunch of ammo but it is shot across a huge number of cartridges and firearms on a range about 50 yards behind my home. The ammunition is reloaded in a dedicated room, built specifically for that purpose and I use five different Lee presses; a Challenger, a turret, and three Load Masters.

In that the Factory Crimp Dies are a subject of discussion in the thread, let me offer some insight in how they they work, they might be right or wrong for your application. First, The FCD included in the Carbide Pistol Die Set is a totally different animal than the FCD in the rifle sets. The Pistol FCD does not feature the "collet" that has pretty much set the rifle FCD apart from other manufacturer's crimp dies. Here is the rifle FCD collet.



This simple little collet with it's four segments at the top is what works the magic. As the base contacts the shellholder and the collet moves up into the die body, the die body contact with the segments causes them to move in horizontally, making contact with only the case rim. The collet segments are wide enough that reasonable case length deviations don't matter.

As Lee began to look at the collet type design for short cartridges, they discovered that the "spring action memory" of the shorter length collet did not have a long life. What I was told was only about a quarter of a million rounds, which might seem a lot to you but not to an outfit that has to work out any warranty issues. The shorter collet also requires a bit more pressure to actuate and many reloaders are reluctant to apply it.
So, along comes the Carbide Pistol Die.



The Carbide Pistol Die has two features that make it different from using the bullet seating die barrel to provide a crimp. It has a floating sleeve (yellow) that allows reasonable deviations in case length and a carbide sizing ring (red) in the base of the die that resizes the loaded round to SAAMI specs, this is especially important in semi-automatic pistol cartridges.

As a shooter and reloader of the 25 ACP, 32 ACP, 380 Auto, 45 ACP, 9mm Luger, and 9 X 18 Makarov, I can assure you that this carbide ring is needed because any semi-auto chambered in these cartridges creates a bulge in the case where the chamber is unsupported for the feed ramp. Here is what that case bulge looks like.



This is 32 ACP brass that has about 10 cycles on it and was shot at the SAAMI max. The carbide ring will remove that bulge. The bulge is exaggerated here because of the case life and max pressure but it is always there whether you see it or not.

What has caused the negative reputation of the Carbide Pistol FCD is it's carbide ring, which is unfortunate, because it's use is critical but it can cause a cast bullet to be sized down. It has no effect on jacketed bullets as they are smaller in diameter than the ring diameter. Remember that the ring is designed to eliminate the bulge at the web of the case and a semi-auto case is tapered, large at the web (base) and small at the rim. Eliminating this bulge, whether you see it or not, is critical to ensuring that your ammo cycles dependably. If you are using your ammo for self defense or competition, this is extremely important.

Cast bullet reloaders eliminate the taper of the case because of the need to seat a bullet over bore diameter (up to +.002"). We, I'm one of them, still need to eliminate the bulge in the case and there is several ways to do it. The easiest method is to simply run the case through the die prior to bullet seating or use the Lee Bulge Buster. I still like the floating ring for providing the crimp in that my case length can vary, so I simply pushed the sizing ring out of the die. It takes a bit of a DIY engineering with a vise or drill press but many do it. So on my press turret I have a Carbide FCD without the bullet seating stem and ring, using it so that the carbide ring eliminates the bulge and then the next position has another Carbide FCD minus the carbide sizing ring to seat the bullet. That's simply the need of a cast bullet shooter, loading semi-auto ammunition, and not a concern of the jacketed bullet reloader.

Okay, but most of talk here is about wheel gun cartridges that don't have the issues of the unsupported chamber as do the semi-autos. With jacketed bullets, the Carbide FCD still does an excellent job of providing the crimp despite variations in case length. Reloaders using cast bullets still face the same issues as the bullet ogive contacts the carbide sizing ring. Lee has address this with their new Bottle Necked Pistol Cartridge FCD. This die uses the same type of collet as the rifle FCD does but they overcome the "short stroke" issue by using a longer collet that is inverted in the die body. Instead of acting against the shellholder it acts against the enclosed top of the die. This initially solved the issue of providing the Factory Crimp on short bottle necked pistol cartridges but it has quickly moved to providing the crimp on any short cartridge. I would recommend these dies for cast bullet shooters using any non semi-auto pistol cartridge (S-A reloaders still need to be concerned about case bulge). Here is a link to the Special Order BNCFCD page, you do not need to send them the cartridge samples for common cartridges like the 357 Mag.

For my business, Lee worked with me in designing rifle type FCD for the 357 Mag, 41 Mag, 44 Mag, and 45 Colt. I offer them through my store. They are half the cost of the newer Bottle Necked Pistol Cartridge FCD but have the limitations mentioned earlier. When my inventory of these dies is exhausted, they will be dropped in favor of the new die.

I'm wore out as I'm sure you are but that is the nuts and bolts of all types of the Lee Factory Crimp Dies. They are a valuable reloading tool with measurable results at the target.

[rfroy]

Ranch Dog

You are a wroth of knowlegde. Have you ever thought of making some youtube videos? This topic would make a great video.

Thank you for your work.

Sent from my Kindle Fire using Tapatalk 2

[akuser47]

Thanks for the info great write up. I learned alot. Thank you

[Esel]

Thanks for all the great info posted here. Sure has helped me out. I did go out and purchase the Lee Challenger kit after reading akuser47's post. I've also read a lot of online reviews. I went with Trail Boss for the powder and the 4 die set. I'm hoping this will be adequate. Right now, I just shoot at a few ranges with a Ruger Blackhawk and Rossi 92, both in 357/38. I only plan to reload the 38's.