Reloading Data for 92 .357

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Re: Reloading Data for 92 .357

Postby donhuff » 30 Jul 2014 10

navydoc,

Don't worry about it. There usually is not a whole lot of difference in the power of the primers mag or regular. Unless your on the very top limit of a max load, it shouldn't make much difference.

The big difference in mag and non mag primers is the strength/thickness of the cup material. Mags are made thicker/harder to handle the pressure better.

I wish that they would make just the magnum version since they are stronger. That would end a lot of confusion.
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Re: Reloading Data for 92 .357

Postby NavyDoc76-80 » 30 Jul 2014 13

Thanks Don, again, I was hoping for this kind of answer and suspected it would be. Since I'm not loading on the high end (yet) in my reloads I'll stick to standard primers. Got to pass this along, I thought it odd when I went into my local shop the other day to replenish my primer stash that the Mag primers were cheaper then the standard primers. I was planning on reloading 357 (for the first time) and bought these (mag primers for the first time) expecting a higher price, as they say in Brooklyn....go fig ya
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Re: Reloading Data for 92 .357

Postby donhuff » 30 Jul 2014 20

It really wouldn't hurt to load everything with the mag primers, and heck yeah since they are cheaper.


I keep meaning to do a small test to see if the mags are stronger than the regular ones. I plan to cast up some wax bullets and load them over NO powder, and check them with the chrono. That would eliminate the little variations in the amount of powder in each round, and should show exactly the strength of the primer and only the primer.

I use to shoot mice at one of my old jobs, with wax 357s. I would sit motionless for 30-45 minutes with a cocked 357 blackhawk (they can hear that click of the sear real easy, and off they'd go). Then when they came out, POP, sounded like a cap gun. A mouse looks funny with a clearish white 357 slug stuck half way through his shoulders.
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Re: Reloading Data for 92 .357

Postby mr surveyor » 30 Jul 2014 20

Don

Do you drill out the flash holes? I've got some 38 spl cases I keep way away from my regular supply that I drilled out just for wax loads. I played with it a bit, but never got the proper ingredients to make good wax bullets. Still something I would do if primers were at least back below 3 cents@ and readily available.

Oh, we used to take turns ... one guy, the shooter, opening the door to the feed room and the other hitting the light switch. With d/a H&R revolvers and rat shot we had a ball popping those vile creatures. Had three separate barns with feed rooms so we could just make the rounds back and forth until we got tired or ran out of shot cartridges. Much simpler times then.
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Re: Reloading Data for 92 .357

Postby donhuff » 31 Jul 2014 07

No, I dont remember ever drilling out the flash holes. Didn't know I was suppose to. Worked ok though, and didn't ruin my brass.

I guess that was done to keep the primers from backing out? I do not remember having a problem with that either.

Dad made a corn crib on the back of our barn to store corn for feeding hogs. I know what you mean bout the rat shot fun!
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Re: Reloading Data for 92 .357

Postby rman » 31 Jul 2014 09

You guys are really bringing back the old memories. I grew up on a farm in north central Kansas. We stored all our grain in steel grain bins, so mice and rats weren't a problem in the stored wheat. We had a big chicken house though, and the mice and rats loved the chicken feed. My brother wasn't a hunter or shooter, but hated rats. We would sneak in the chicken house at night and my brother would switch on he electric lantern. I'd shoot them with my old Winchester 67 single shot with bird shot. In the 60's I lived in a small town that had a city dump. Several of us used to shoot rats in the dump with .22 handguns and rifles. Boy, times have changed!

I used to load a lot of paraffin bullets in .38 Spec cases and shot them in a S&W model 10. I did drill out the primer pockets because sometimes I had trouble with them backing out and binding up the cylinder. They're a lot of fun for practicing your draw and point shooting skills.

I've always been skeptical of the magnum primer business. I load some very heavy .357 Mag loads using either H110 or W296. I don't have a chronograph, but the standard primers shoot more accurately in my 6.5" Blackhawk than the magnum primers. I can see no difference in unburned powder. I think donhuff is on the right track - harder primer cups.
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Re: Reloading Data for 92 .357

Postby donhuff » 01 Aug 2014 07

Good info here that has actual data about the cup thickness.
http://www.jamescalhoon.com/primers_and_pressure.php

found an interesting one on the power of primers too

http://www.castingstuff.com/primer_test ... erence.htm
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Re: Reloading Data for 92 .357

Postby NavyDoc76-80 » 01 Aug 2014 13

Don, the 1st link was by without a doubt educational. Though many fine points, the one that really struck me was the use of small rifle primers in 9mm and 357. The second eye opener was the statement of flattened primers is not altogether an indicator of high pressures. All good stuff, thanks for sharing.
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Re: Reloading Data for 92 .357

Postby Archer » 02 Aug 2014 00

Interesting links.
From the first link:
By studying the numbers, one can readily see which primers in the small rifle sections will withstand heavy loads. Primer cup diameters are all similar and appear to follow a specification, but check out the cup thickness in the small rifle primers (Dimension "A"). It is obvious that the thicker cups will withstand more pressure.


Maybe but this assumes the same metal same alloy and same heat treat condition for each primer cup regardless of application or manufacturer. Not exactly unreasonable perhaps but NOT assured. In fact having specified materials in industrial applications I would not be surprised if there were in fact alternate materials that were acceptable yet not exact in properties.

WHUPS I started this post too soon the author seems to have contradicted his assumptions in the above quote very shortly thereafter in the article:

Another factor which determines the strength of a primer cup is the work hardened state of the brass used to make the primer cup. They are made with cartridge brass (70% copper, 30% zinc), which can vary from 46,000 psi, soft, to 76,000 psi tensile strength when fully hardened. Manufacturers specify to their brass suppliers the hardness of brass desired. I was not able to test primer hardness, but an educated guess says that a primer manufacturer would choose a harder brass in order to keep material thickness down and reduce costs.


- With large rifle primers all being the same thickness, choose a primer that makes the most accurate group, is the shiniest, cheapest or whatever, as they all have similar pressure capabilities.


Given the possibility of differences in my initial comments, mirrored by the second quoted section above I don't think that assumption is proven.

WRT the second article, I'm not sure what is actually being measured or exactly how.
It notes the effect of a 'load' on a plate while changing the primer all else remaining the same being assumed. I'm not certain that gives a very good scale of the potential variation of the primers in question. This is especially true with the lack of exact testing setup and procedure.

I used to have an interesting article wrt primers vs. magnum primers vs. 'military' primers vs. 'Match' primers. I haven't been able to find the link in question and it is possible the article has dropped off the net.

My primary concern has been load consistency AND the fact that I often load for military semiauto designs which have a floating firing pin that may tap the primer as the action closes. I have a strong aversion to out of battery ignition of ANY weapon but especially one I've got responsibility for in terms of the gun, the shooter or the load.
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Re: Reloading Data for 92 .357

Postby donhuff » 02 Aug 2014 08

Ndoc,

I've used small rifle primers in pistols before, and as usual, I could not tell any difference.

We see this same type of situation in model rocketry where with a bigger motor, guys tend to want a bigger igniter. Actually, the biggest motor made will light off just fine with a small igniter......it just takes a little longer for the motor to come up to pressure, and that is nail biting time that you like to avoid. Some guys will use a regular igniter, and thread 1- 2-4 pyrodex pellets onto the igniters wire, for a pressure boost. That almost always gets INSTANT ignition.


I can light a cigarette with one match, and I can light 55 gallons of diesel and 5 gallons of gas, with one match. (I did that one time). I didn't need the whole box of matches for the big fire.
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20" SS 92 44
20" Bl 92 45C
20" Bl 92 454
SS Rio Grande 30-30
Bl Rio Grande 45-70
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