IMR4227 in .45 Colt

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IMR4227 in .45 Colt

Postby Santa01 » 26 Nov 2017 18

Howdy again, I have been shooting a 200 gr LRNFP with CCI 300 primers on top of 6.8 to 7.3 gr of Titegroup in both my Cimarron 1873 4 5/8 barrel and my sweet Rossi 92 16". Very easy soft shooting round. I have just bought some IMR4227 and am pondering building a load JUST FOR THE ROSSI, with a cast bullet between the weight of 265 to 300 gr. using this powder. It seems I might have to use the CCI 350 primer instead of my stash of 300s. Oh well,such is life. Just for kicks n giggles (no pun intended) I would like to send these out around 1,500 fps. I know , I am a glutton for punishment but that metal butt plate just looks so friendly. Any suggestions as to hardness, need for gas check, pointers for me to research are ALL appreciated. Thanks guys, Santa01
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Re: IMR4227 in .45 Colt

Postby Ranch Dog » 26 Nov 2017 22

I have H4227, four pounds of it, but have never found much use of it other than my Rossi 2" 38 Spl revolver. I use QuckLoad for all my load predictions and the velocity always significantly lagged as compared to Lil'Gun or H110 both. That performance has been confirmed by the chronograph, so I don't use it for my inventory ammunition.

I load my 45 Colt to 35K PSI with my 290-grain cast bullet and see 1775 FPS with Lil'Gun, 1710 FPS with H110, but only 1495 FPS with H4227.
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Re: IMR4227 in .45 Colt

Postby Ranch Dog » 27 Nov 2017 17

Santa01 wrote:Any suggestions as to hardness, need for gas check, pointers for me to research are ALL appreciated.

I don't think that with a 16" barrel and a 275 to 300-grain bullet, 1500 FPS will be obtainable with 4227. You probably will need to use a compressed load to get around 1425 FPS. In my experience with the powder and lubed cast bullets in general, you are likely looking at a load that is 105% of the usable case capacity with the bullet seated. A lubed cast bullet is tough to seat at any greater compression level; it won't stay in place.

The good thing is that the full load will generate only 26 to 27K PSI, a pressure that a plain base bullet can survive as long as it has a double-digit BHN (vs. a single).

That given, my advice would be to start with a gas checked bullet if you can to eliminate one variable in this process.
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Re: IMR4227 in .45 Colt

Postby Santa01 » 28 Nov 2017 17

Thanks, I have ordered some Beartooth 265 grn gc. Now to get some CCI 350 to replace my 300s for the 4227.
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Re: IMR4227 in .45 Colt

Postby Ohio3Wheels » 29 Nov 2017 10

I've always found that if velocity is the goal, along with accuracy, then either of the 4227s is not the powder of choice. I found that it maxes out before you reach the MV you're looking for. I switched to H110 for the most part in both the 45 Colt and the 357 and those loads will stand for this season. Off season I want to try some lil gun, but that will wait until spring.

Out for armed recon today with the '92.

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Re: IMR4227 in .45 Colt

Postby Santa01 » 12 Dec 2017 14

Ranch Dog wrote:I have H4227, four pounds of it, but have never found much use of it other than my Rossi 2" 38 Spl revolver. I use QuckLoad for all my load predictions and the velocity always significantly lagged as compared to Lil'Gun or H110 both. That performance has been confirmed by the chronograph, so I don't use it for my inventory ammunition.

I load my 45 Colt to 35K PSI with my 290-grain cast bullet and see 1775 FPS with Lil'Gun, 1710 FPS with H110, but only 1495 FPS with H4227.

Thanks to you and Ohio3wheels, for the info. The main reason I chose 4227 is that it doesn't seem to have the risk of a pressure spike near top loads. I am fairly new at this and am wanting to give myself SOME leeway. I seriously thank all of you who are so helpful. Being new to this I am finding that the more I learn the more I realize I do not know. One thing in particular if I may. I see a lot of bullets that I would like to shoot but are to long for a lever action. I understand that I can seat a bullet above the crimp groove thereby seating the bullet deeper in the case. How does one determine the increase in pressure that is sure to follow? Thanks again, Santa01 Lee
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Re: IMR4227 in .45 Colt

Postby Ranch Dog » 12 Dec 2017 18

Without a internal ballistic generator like QuickLoad, it would be impossible to figure out. As a new reloader, stick to the recipe card and all the given components.
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Re: IMR4227 in .45 Colt

Postby Santa01 » 13 Dec 2017 10

I do believe I will take your advice as to sticking with the tried and true of the recipe card. I priced the Quickload program. That is a cost I am not sure I can justify. I seem to remember seeing a mathematical formula that allowed one to predict changes in pressure as to the depth of seating. I look for that and offer the info here. Thanks again.
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Re: IMR4227 in .45 Colt

Postby Archer » 15 Dec 2017 04

This is one case where the recipe NEEDS to be followed.
It isn't baking a cake where you can add a pinch of salt or a teaspoon of spice and no harm done even if it tastes a little funny.

The only 'rule' I've seen with regard to seating depth is that when seating deeper, all other things being the same, pressure increases. Knowing when that increase flips from safe to unsafe isn't an available formula.

The other thing about the recipes is that they generally work. When there isn't a recipe published for a given combination of projectile and caliber there is typically a reason why. The manufacturers want to sell their product to the widest possible consumer base BUT at the same time they want those consumers to have a good experience with their product and come back for more so they are going to try to avoid recipes that induce headaches.
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Re: IMR4227 in .45 Colt

Postby Ranch Dog » 15 Dec 2017 08

Santa01 wrote:I seem to remember seeing a mathematical formula that allowed one to predict changes in pressure as to the depth of seating.

There might be but you will still need a proven recipe for your given components to apply the math too and therein lies the rub.

The only way to proceed, if not with QuickLoad, is with a strain gauge attached to your barrel. I have the RSI Pressure Trace II, and can tell you it is an expensive & long, but fun process of establishing your data. The expense part is about the hard & software plus the components needed to generate the data. I can also tell you that there is nothing linear about pressure when it comes to the effects of compression. It would take an algorithm to resolve the effect.
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