RD's Muzzleloader

Value priced adult & youth top break handguns, rifles, & shotguns chambered for centerfire & rimfire cartridges as well as shotshells. These arms are offered as single chamberings as well as a Matched Pair, Pick Four combinations, Trifecta, & the Wizard.
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RD's Muzzleloader

Post by Ranch Dog »

I introduced the Slug Gun side of my Single Shot Matched Pair combo in another thread so now it is time to show you the 50 caliber muzzleloader side.

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The receiver and butt stock are common to both sides of the combo normally the barrels associated with a "Matched Pair", "Trifecta" or "Pick Four" share the forearm the as well. With a muzzleloader involved with the combination of barrels a muzzleloader forearm is included to support the ramrod and and it's guides. I'm really lucky as the wood on the ML forearm is outstanding!

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I'm going to start with the Lee Precision REAL bullets. I have cast with both the 250 and 320 grain bullets. Per the recommendations from Lee, I have cast them from pure lead and lubed (dipped) them in liquid Alox. I've always wondered why Lee offered a .510" Lube and Size Kit but have found out it is to accommoidate & size the forward driving band of the bullet. Passing the bullets through the sizer removes the excessive lube as well as trueing the forward band.

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Rossi recommends Pyrodex pellets and saboted bullets with the rifle. I will start with the REAL bullets pictured but have ordered sabots for both 44 and 45 caliber bullets. I looked at Hodgdon's Pyrodex and their Triple Seven. I will start with the later for ease of clean up.

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The Owner's Manual isn't specific about the primers other than "209". I bought 1K worth of Remington 209s for my slug gun but wasn't if they were appropriate for the ML so I bought two boxes of Federal Fusion 209s to get started with the ML. Can I use the shotgun primers?

Finally, I have a Skinner Single Shot Peep that mounts in where the barrel is drilled and tapped for the scope. Thinking real hard about using it.
Michael
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Re: RD's Muzzleloader

Post by akuser47 »

Nice I'm in to learn how it goes for you thanks RD keep us posted.
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Re: RD's Muzzleloader

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Yesterday morning I ended up with just a little bit of free time so I ran out and shot the muzzleloader with both the Lee REAL 50-250 and 50-320 bullets. I shot two shots with each bullet using only one Triple Seven pellet and then the remainder of the shots used two pellets. The rifle is very accurate as far as the groups are considered but I could not get those groups on a 8.5"X11 target within the limitations of the sights windage adjustment. At 25-yards, elevation was easily corrected but windage proved impossible. With the rear sight moved to one side of the limit for it's travel, the shots where impacting 8.5" from center. I knew from experience what that meant.

Back in my reloading room, I broke the rifle down and put the barrel in the vise. I have a laser boresight target on one wall 19' from my gun vise so I lined the bore up on the bullseye, very accurately, by using the primer flash hole in the breech plug like a peep sight and then placed the laser in the barrel. The laser beam was right on the money so I knew the there was nothing nonconcentric with the bore. Next, I centered up the rear sight with a micrometer and then placed it on the laser target bullseye and the beam was 2.125" to the right. When I calculated the angle, .524°, it was they same result I had calculated out at the shooting bench. Bummer! It doesn't sound like much but over the course of any distance this MOA change is huge. 33 1/2 inches worth of huge at 100 yards!

Last night I spent a bit of time measuring the holes that were drilled and tapped in the barrel for the front and rear sights and then when I woke up this morning I went out and did it again. Sure enough that front sight is drilled half a degree off center. Hmmm...

This rifle is as accurate as my RG4570 so it has a lot of potential. The 250-grain bullet is producing about 1750 FPS and the 320-grain bullet about 1600 FPS. I have a Skinner Single Shot Peep, but it too cannot overcome the error induced by the front sight. This is the fiber optic front sight which is secured with two screws. There is no adjustment or give when installing it. No way to correct the error with the holes off center. As a note, this was an "old stock, new in the box" matched pair, the receiver is marked "Braztech" and but both this barrel and the slug gun barrel is marked "A. Rossi". I suspect this rifle was built during the time of Braztech's acquisition and the barrels were actually built by A. Rossi.

In an effort to avoid returning the rifle, I think I will put a scope on it and see how it shoots as I can see where this firearm has the potential for shooting game out to distances of 100 to 150 yards. From my measurements, the four holes for the scope base appear to be aligned with the bore, if they are not, I can use .030" worth of offset with Burris Signature Rings but would like to avoid that if all possible as those buggers are expensive; $60, which is what I consider 60% of the cost of this barrel.

The barrel became quite nasty during the shooting but the fouling did not seem affect the shooting. Before cleaning the rifle, I reread Hodgdon's recommendations which says that water will clean the Triple Seven up quickly. Hodgdon also says to only use water if recommended by the manufacturer. The Rossi Owner's Manual goes into great detail on cleaning the rifle and suggests a "commercial water-based solvent" for field cleaning. I really don't know what to expect at this point as to how many rounds I can shoot at the bench until my accuracy goes to pot. I did purchase Birchwood Casey's No 77 Muzzle Magic Cleaner for this purpose but it has yet to arrive so I just saturated a couple of patches with water for the initial cleaning. The only leading I observed in the barrel is in what would be considered the chamber area as viewed with with the breech plug removed. I suspect this is where obturation is occurring.

Sorry about this being a bit of a "blog" about this firearm but nothing has been written about it as of yet.
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Re: RD's Muzzleloader

Post by Tuco Ramirez »

Sounds like you are having fun...... As for clean up I have tried quite few. When I quit shooting black powder I was using Simple Green as my go to solution. The final clean I put some Simple Green in hot water for the flush. We used to shoot 125+ shots in an afternoon match. About every 10 shots I would spray a patch with Simple Green and swap the barrel.
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Re: RD's Muzzleloader

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Ranch Dog wrote:In an effort to avoid returning the rifle, I think I will put a scope on it and see how it shoots as I can see where this firearm has the potential for shooting game out to distances of 100 to 150 yards. From my measurements, the four holes for the scope base appear to be aligned with the bore, if they are not, I can use .030" worth of offset with Burris Signature Rings but would like to avoid that if all possible as those buggers are expensive; $60, which is what I consider 60% of the cost of this barrel.
I wasn't going to work on the rifle this afternoon, have scheduled maintenance to perform on a tractor, but one of my hunting buddies showed up so we worked on the muzzleloader. Nothing ever seems to be simple. The scope base filler screws were a bear to get out. The head of the forward screw broke off, both sides of the flush plug, so I said "so what" and mounted the base with the remaining three screws. If it messes with me any further I will show it, I guess the other rifles didn't tell it I am known to JB Weld the base on a barrel in a heartbeat :x

Anyway, it worked like a charm. Centered the barrel via the bore and breech plug on my laser target on the wall and turned it on. The crosshairs were centered horizontally and an appropriate measure above the bore for scope height. I'm going to wait for better weather to shoot it, raining right now, so that I can chronograph both bullets.
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R[/img]e: RD's Muzzleloader

Post by Ranch Dog »

Did a little more muzzleloading today. I only shot at 25-yards and only with the REAL 50-320. With the help of the scope, all the bullets would literally go into the same hole. That is until the scope came loose. I've experienced the issue with the P801 base on both by Rio Grande and Wizard and now the Single Shots. Of course, they all use the same base. The R92 to does not seem to have the issue. This issue that I've seen, it is a bit hit and miss, is that the base is too narrow for the Weaver style rings it is intended for. I typically just buy another base, the odds are that it will be fine but today decided to shim it with brass.

I used .002" brass shimming material in the appropriate spots on the base. I used an industrial super glue to attach the shims to the base. The rings had no issue chinching down on the base. I suspect this base is about .002" to .003" to narrow.

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Everything went fine from there. Probably will buy another base as I'm going to actually use the Weaver Grand Slam Quick Lock Rings on this barrel so that the scope can be removed to clean the rifle without the rifle/scope loosing it's zero.

Whatelse... the Birchwood Casey's No 77 Muzzle Magic Cleaner works great. After 10 shots, I saturated a bore mop with it and washed out the barrel. I then rinsed out the bore mop with water and used it to swab the barrel. A couple of patches to dry the barrel and I was done. No residue from the Alox or lead from the bullets. I will get it sighted in at 100 yards this week or next.

I'm trying to figure out how the powder residue is cleaned with affecting the need to fire a "fouling" shot. My first shot from a clean barrel impacts quite a distance from the subsequent shots which are placed into a tight group. I tried firing just a primer with the clean barrel but it didn't result in the changes that I hoped.

My Hornady sabots came in. I plan on using them with my TLC432-350-RF bullet. Here is the stack with 100-grains of Triple 7 (two pellets).

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It will be interesting to see how the bullet does. My interest in it is for it's large meplat. I would like it for hunting.

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Re: RD's Muzzleloader

Post by akuser47 »

Good info thanks for sharing please keep us updated. Years ago my grandfather shot blackpowder and he would bring a gallon jug of water mix with amonia and would pour it into the barrel then swab till it was clean then he would lube with ol remington gun oil. It never pitted or rusted I do not know his mixture percentage though. Im just mentioning it he said the amonia helped it evaporate faster and helped clean? I never did this myself.
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Re: RD's Muzzleloader

Post by Ranch Dog »

Thanks for the info AK. I was surprised how fast the No. 77 cleaned things up. The only thing I can think of to describe it was "immediately".

One thing that I had an issue with is removing the breech plug. Rossi says to oil the threads but is difficult to loosen after ten shots. I tried some high temperature grease but that made it worse. Now, I have a Anti-Seize on the threads to see if that helps.
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Re: RD's Muzzleloader

Post by akuser47 »

Ranch Dog wrote:Thanks for the info AK. I was surprised how fast the No. 77 cleaned things up. The only thing I can think of to describe it was "immediately".

One thing that I had an issue with is removing the breech plug. Rossi says to oil the threads but is difficult to loosen after ten shots. I tried some high temperature grease but that made it worse. Now, I have a Anti-Seize on the threads to see if that helps.
My uncle always used anti sieze on his cap nipples I remeber him being mad at me when I was using it as paint. :oops: I was 6 and painting the sidewalk with his antisieze.
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Re: RD's Muzzleloader

Post by Ranch Dog »

akuser47 wrote:My uncle always used anti sieze on his cap nipples I remeber him being mad at me when I was using it as paint. :oops: I was 6 and painting the sidewalk with his antisieze.
Haah, that's funny! That stuff is tough to get off! Thanks for the info, it helps to know that you are on the right track!
Michael
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