Ejection Cylce Jam

[pellicle]

Hi

Took the Rio 30-30 out yesterday. Had a lot of jams. Was only firing single shot (range rules) but still some were in tight. I ended up yanking the lever down really hard to attemp to clear when this happened as I got tired of doing a disassemble after the first time.

Is this something which happens on these?

Is there some point in a pull down and apply a little emery paper to rough points to fix it?

[Archer]

Are you shooting reloads and were the rounds tight going INTO the chamber or ONLY coming OUT?
Do snap caps cycle without issues or even live rounds that are not fired?

When reloading .30-30 for lever actions it is REQUIRED that they be full length resized. The actions lack the camming action of bolt actions and if the brass is not fully resized it WILL cause problems. It is also required that you trim the brass to avoid it growing beyond maximum case length. That can cause pressure rise if it gets too long.

IF you are having problems only with extraction of fired brass and from new factory cartridges I'd be looking to see if the chamber has some kind of roughness in it that is causing problems.

IF the action is smooth when you are dry cycling it or when you are cycling ammo without firing it or snap caps then it is unlikely to be roughness in the action itself.

[pellicle]

Hi

thanks for your answer (and questions)

Are you shooting reloads

no, but they are PPU (which some have reported having trouble with, but I believe this is different.

and were the rounds tight going INTO the chamber or ONLY coming OUT?

entry into the chamber is always nice, jam is coming out.

Do snap caps cycle without issues or even live rounds that are not fired?

no, and actually some of the cycling with nothing jams occasionally too ... I'm sort of suspecting that little blobbby thing at the back of (what I would otherwise call) the bolt, but I don't know for sure. It seems to hang low.

IF you are having problems only with extraction of fired brass and from new factory cartridges I'd be looking to see if the chamber has some kind of roughness in it that is causing problems.

even given the occasional jam of nothing?

IF the action is smooth when you are dry cycling it or when you are cycling ammo without firing it or snap caps then it is unlikely to be roughness in the action itself.

perhaps this answers my qn above ...

where do you think I'd be best looking in the action?

For what its worth I've found this video is very close to the details of the Rio:
[youtube][/youtube]

[Zippidydoodah]

Did you clean chamber good when new? Did you find any machining tailings, grit. Or particles when cleaning ; is the chamber have rough spots ?
Are u using new ammo or reloads? What do the shells look like when removed?pictures are helpful.

[Ranch Dog]

I changed the title of this topic from "jams" to a bit for detail so the Similar Topics at the bottom of the page would pickup and appropriate topics.

One thing that would help is if you could use the Owners Manual to identify the parts rather than the description you provided. Pictures is a plus too.

I would look at the aft end of the bolt. In particular, how the underside of the bolt makes contact with the radius of the hammer. There is a particular angle on the back, underside of the bolt that is supposed to roll the hammer back. If the angle on the bolt is not correct, smooth, or constant, aft motion of the bolt against the hammer causes to the bolt to raise slightly as it moves against the hammer and causes the bolt to jam. It is present only when a cartridge is in the chamber as the chambered cartridge removes any wiggle from the bolt. Snap caps would work as they are at the factory spec but a fired case is expanded significantly.

This is also a player in the case scratching that many have seen with the Rio Grande. The scratches are directly related to the internal parts not being polished but the binding bolt (against the hammer) is not allowing any play within the action.

Here is the problem I experienced with my RG4570B and to a less degree both of my RG3030Bs.
Rio Grande Scratched Cases... Bolt Binding

[pellicle]

Hi

I changed the title of this topic from "jams" to a bit for detail so the Similar Topics at the bottom of the page would pickup and appropriate topics.

thanks ... I hadn't thought to consider it "ejection cycle" but now that you mention it that's a good idea.

One thing that would help is if you could use the Owners Manual to identify the parts rather than the description you provided. Pictures is a plus too.

The manual as supplied is basically nothing more than a brochure, which discusses hearing protection, child safety and has at the end (almost as an afterthought) something of the gun. The pictures are best described as thumbnails and there is no parts mentioned save for the safety, the lever and thats about it really...

pictures I can do ... coming further down

I would look at the aft end of the bolt. In particular, how the underside of the bolt makes contact with the radius of the hammer. There is a particular angle on the back, underside of the bolt that is supposed to roll the hammer back. If the angle on the bolt is not correct, smooth, or constant, aft motion of the bolt against the hammer causes to the bolt to raise slightly as it moves against the hammer and causes the bolt to jam. It is present only when a cartridge is in the chamber as the chambered cartridge removes any wiggle from the bolt. Snap caps would work as they are at the factory spec but a fired case is expanded significantly.

thanks ... will look at that part of the action ... may perhaps need to pull that out as per that video ...

This is also a player in the case scratching that many have seen with the Rio Grande. The scratches are directly related to the internal parts not being polished but the binding bolt (against the hammer) is not allowing any play within the action.

Here is the problem I experienced with my RG4570B and to a less degree both of my RG3030Bs.
Rio Grande Scratched Cases... Bolt Binding

here are my casings, not dreadfully scratched if you ask (a novice like) me.



and in this shot, you can see what I assume is expansion causing marks ... but I don't really know



given that this happens when dry cycling I'm inclined to suspect something else.

Zippidy ... you asked:

Did you clean chamber good when new? Did you find any machining tailings, grit. Or particles when cleaning ; is the chamber have rough spots ?

no not really ... I gave it a pull through, but that's it. I'm still confused why this happens from new and dry cycling...

Thank you everyone for tips ... I will look into pulling it down.

[Ranch Dog]

Here is the bolt assembly detail from the Owners Manual.

RG_bolt_group_detail.jpg

[Ranch Dog]

The cases look good to me. If the bolt is binding against the hammer surface rather than rolling it back it would add to the effort at extraction.

With the gun empty really look at the bolt/hammer contact. Operate the bolt real slow and see if the aft end of the bolt is raised up by the hammer as the bolt starts back. If it does, that is the bind and it needs to be corrected.

When the bolt is all the way back there is some up and down play at the aft end. It has to be there to get past the hammer. The otherwise is that it binds.

[pellicle]

Here is the bolt assembly detail from the Owners Manual.

Thanks, I wish mine had that. Seems we just get nothing like service in Australia

[pellicle]

The cases look good to me.
With the gun empty really look at the bolt/hammer contact. Operate the bolt real slow and see if the aft end of the bolt is raised up by the hammer as the bolt starts back. If it does, that is the bind and it needs to be corrected.

When the bolt is all the way back there is some up and down play at the aft end. It has to be there to get past the hammer. The otherwise is that it binds.

I should say that its not tight, its the opposite of that. Its sloppy. So its jamming not binding from tight.

I am sure that the part #16 is jamming the lever. It I press it in with a finger it often releases. Let me see if I can cook up a video and upload it

Done

[youtube][/youtube]

:-)